TX ban on carry by voters 18-20 years of age

[Old_Grouch]

I have a response to those who claim the 2A applies only to militia members:

I think everyone would agree that educated voters are critical to our form of government. People need to know the issues, the candidates' stance on the issues, etc. Let's say the Founding Fathers had added another amendment expressed in a similar manner to the Second.
"A well educated electorate being necessary to the security of a free state; the right of the people to keep and read educational material shall not be infringed."
Would anyone in his right mind interpret that to mean that only registered voters have the right to own books?

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I have a response to those who claim the 2A applies only to militia members:

I think everyone would agree that educated voters are critical to our form of government. People need to know the issues, the candidates' stance on the issues, etc. Let's say the Founding Fathers had added another amendment expressed in a similar manner to the Second.
"A well educated electorate being necessary to the security of a free state; the right of the people to keep and read educational material shall not be infringed."
Would anyone in his right mind interpret that to mean that only registered voters have the right to own books?

That's a pretty good argument.

 

[sparkyv]

Permitless concealed carry.

What else are you wanting?

 

[bearcreek]

Not old enough to buy a handgun....but old enough to open carry one? Yeah, that makes sense!

18-20 year olds can legally buy handguns, as long as it's not from an FFL.

 

[tarosean]

Permitless concealed carry.

HB1927 gave that.. It doesn't matter if it's concealed or open as long as it's in a Holster.

I kept my LTC and will continue to do so for reciprocity with other states.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Indeed. It was an unfortunate choice of verbiage by our Founding Fathers. I don't think we'd have nearly the uphill battle we have if they'd omitted the opening phrase of the 2A.

Maybe they thought that part of the phrase was most important, so they put it first. Hmmmmm.

 

[CapnMac]

18-20 year olds can legally buy handguns, as long as it's not from an FFL.

In Texas, and a number of other States, but, not all States universally.

 

[DeepSouth]

I love the lone star state. This is good news.

The lone star state should be ashamed of themselves for passing this in the first place.

IMO, It's an illustration of their downward trend, it’s sad to see.

 

[Old_Grouch]

Maybe they thought that part of the phrase was most important, so they put it first. Hmmmmm.

I'm sure they did, but as insight to the thinking behind it:
George Mason, co-author of the Second Amendment:
“I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.” – Speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 14, 1778

 

[sparkyv]

You are correct.

HB1927 gave that.. It doesn't matter if it's concealed or open as long as it's in a Holster.

I kept my LTC and will continue to do so for reciprocity with other states.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I'm sure they did, but as insight to the thinking behind it:
George Mason, co-author of the Second Amendment:
“I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.” – Speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 14, 1778

You know. It's interesting. I've just spent the better part of an hour searching the internet for an original source document that contains that quote, and I cannot find it anywhere. There is a lot of stuff by Mason, but that I cannot find that specific statement anywhere, other than in secondary sources.

 

[bearcreek]

In Texas, and a number of other States, but, not all States universally.

Correct. About 18 states limit handgun purchases to those 21 and older. I was talking specifically about Texas, since that is the subject at hand.

 

[Slamfire]

Funny how things go around. The ruling boomers who take away gun rights from men aged 18, were the same Vietnam protestors wanting 18 year olds to have the vote. The logic was, old enough to die in Vietnam, old enough to vote. Today the logic is, old enough to die in Forever Wars, but not old enough to own an AR15, which is the civilian version of the service rifle.

The only consistency rich, white, liberal, coastal elites have, is hypocrisy.

 

[dogtown tom]

The lone star state should be ashamed of themselves for passing this in the first place.

IMO, It's an illustration of their downward trend, it’s sad to see.

Tell us more about this downward trend.

 

[Old_Grouch]

You know. It's interesting. I've just spent the better part of an hour searching the internet for an original source document that contains that quote,

That's because there were no scanners in those days. (sorry, couldn't help myself)
Supposedly he said that in a speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 14, 1778

 

[Double Naught Spy]

George Mason, co-author of the Second Amendment:
“I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.” – Speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 14, 1778

Interesting quote. Mason's sentence structure seems oddly off, does it not? He was much more eloquent in his speech/writing.

You know. It's interesting. I've just spent the better part of an hour searching the internet for an original source document that contains that quote, and I cannot find it anywhere. There is a lot of stuff by Mason, but that I cannot find that specific statement anywhere, other than in secondary sources.

That is because it is incorrect as written and very incomplete. It is comprised of two different quotes, taken from different contexts that were both stated by Mason.

https://www.madisonbrigade.com/g_mason.htm
"...to disarm the people ― that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for few public officials." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426)

 

[DeepSouth]

Tell us more about this downward trend.

In 2018 48% of Texas voters voted for one of the most openly anti gun candidates in Texas history.
Now this, it certainly doesn’t look promising, that’s all I’m saying.

It looks to me like the pro gun side of Texas is shrinking, but as an outsider I admittedly don’t keep up with Texas. Time will tell.

 

[Old_Grouch]

It looks to me like the pro gun side of Texas is shrinking,

Not surprising. People are leaving California in droves and Texas is one of the more popular destinations. Over time the ratio is bound to change. You can ruin a good soup by watering it down pretty easily.

 

[dogtown tom]

In 2018 48% of Texas voters voted for one of the openly most anti gun candidates in Texas history.
Now this, it certainly doesn’t look promising, that’s all I’m saying.

I could have garnered 48% of the vote vs Ted Cruz. He has the personality of sandpaper and has been described by his own party as a miserable SOB. He also din't bother campaigning until Bob the Fake Mexican had already won his primary. Cruz vastly underestimated his own popularity or lack thereof.

It looks to me like the pro gun side of Texas is shrinking, but as an outsider I admittedly don’t keep up with Texas. Time will tell.

Really? You haven't been paying attention. Our legislature only meets every two years and every one of those sessions over the last twenty years has seen more pro gun legislation pass and literally ZERO antigun legislation. Where you would get the idea that the pro gun side is slipping shows a complete and utter ignorance of the facts.

Texas hasn't elected a single Democrat to statewide office in almost thirty years.
Heck, we'll reelect a Republican Attorney General whos been under indictment since before he took office.

 

[DeepSouth]

I could have garnered 48% of the vote vs Ted Cruz. He has the personality of sandpaper and has been described by his own party as a miserable SOB. He also din't bother campaigning until Bob the Fake Mexican had already won his primary. Cruz vastly underestimated his own popularity or lack thereof.


Really? You haven't been paying attention. Our legislature only meets every two years and every one of those sessions over the last twenty years has seen more pro gun legislation pass and literally ZERO antigun legislation. Where you would get the idea that the pro gun side is slipping shows a complete and utter ignorance of the facts.

Texas hasn't elected a single Democrat to statewide office in almost thirty years.
Heck, we'll reelect a Republican Attorney General whos been under indictment since before he took office.

First, I freely admit I haven’t really been paying attention to TX politics and I am therefore fairly ignorant of it, haven’t made that a secret. That being said I think you’re missing the point, and furthermore I don’t believe it’s possible to get you to see my perspective, admittedly one reason is because I may be wrong.

Like I said, time will tell, but I will be surprised if TX isn’t repealing gun legalization and passing gun control bills (like this case btw) in 15-20 years. But neither of us knows the future and this is as much political as anything and really not on topic for THR.

I just bow out with the statement that I truly hope you are right and I am wrong. I just don’t think that’s the case, I think TX is importing to many anti gunners and they will live to regret it, again I sincerely hope I’m mistaken.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

The lone star state should be ashamed of themselves for passing this in the first place.

IMO, It's an illustration of their downward trend, it’s sad to see.

In 2018 48% of Texas voters voted for one of the most openly anti gun candidates in Texas history.
Now this, it certainly doesn’t look promising, that’s all I’m saying.

A trend of one datum point?

First, I freely admit I haven’t really been paying attention to TX politics and I am therefore fairly ignorant of it, haven’t made that a secret.

You aren't paying attention are admittedly ignorant of what you are speaking, but have decided that Texas should be ashamed of itself and that it is in a downward trend. You have pretty much invalidated your arguments for Texas being in trouble and where shame should be placed, LOL.

I think TX is importing to many anti gunners and they will live to regret it, again I sincerely hope I’m mistaken.

Texas is not importing people, LOL. Texas pretty much cannot stop people from coming to Texas. This is covered by numerous laws, LOL. We can stop a few illegal aliens, but by and large, that is covered by federal law that we can't change.

 

[DeepSouth]

A trend of one datum point?



You aren't paying attention are admittedly ignorant of what you are speaking, but have decided that Texas should be ashamed of itself and that it is in a downward trend. You have pretty much invalidated your arguments for Texas being in trouble and where shame should be placed, LOL.



Texas is not importing people, LOL. Texas pretty much cannot stop people from coming to Texas. This is covered by numerous laws, LOL. We can stop a few illegal aliens, but by and large, that is covered by federal law that we can't change.

you missed the point as well.

You’re making multiple incorrect assumptions about what I believe, maybe that’s your bias, maybe it’s my poor communication skills. Either way they’re to many to deal with and you obviously aren’t willing to entertain an opinion contrary to yours.

I absolutely do stand by the statement that TX should be ashamed of its self for passing a restrictive gun control law, thankfully it was struck down.

I forgot to unwatch last time, I got it now so I’m out.

 

[CapnMac]

The lone star state should be ashamed of themselves for passing this in the first place.

Ah, see, the critical thing here is not that the Legislature went out and deliberately said, "We're excluding all under 21."
When the "constitutional" (actually, permit-less) carry laws were being enacted, they were modifications of existing Texas law for carry of handguns. Because the LTC laws were all focused on handguns, typical handgun rules applied. Such as those under 21 wanting an LTC did and still do) need a "qualification" (like service in LE, or prior or current Military Service).

There was an unintended "gotcha" in that the change to permit-less created, accidentally, a prohibition on Open Carry of all arms for those under 21. Which, actually, contradicted existing Texas Laws (and stated intents of those laws). Which created a legal conundrum. This was a side effect of all the (d) stubbornness over the legislation, which spilt over into a Special Session [] vainly trying to overcome a 2/3 vs 1/3 majority (in both State houses).

I think TX is importing to many anti gunners and they will live to regret it, again I sincerely hope I’m mistaken.

The problem is more with those "coat-tailing" the C-Suites of Toyota, Tesla, AT&T, etc. They did not necessarily want to move, but, to keep the fat paychecks rolling in, they moved where the Company went. And, there are plenty of flunkies-of-flunkies following in the wake, too. All too eager to pay $2.40-2.75 sf rent rates, too.

Largely they are only ruining Austin and North Dallas. Both of which were annoyingly "blue" before. There are still 26 million other Texans out there spread across the 254 Counties.

There are plenty of corporate goons out laying "Green Acres" at the edge of rural/suburb regions. But, they are discovering that "country life" means living in the country. With all that entails.

 

[dogtown tom]

....I absolutely do stand by the statement that TX should be ashamed of its self for passing a restrictive gun control law, thankfully it was struck down....

Tell us all when Texas passed this "restrictive gun control law".
Before you answer, understand that Texas didn't do it this century. It dates to the Yankee Carpetbagger era after the War of Northern Aggression.

Texas gun laws have been getting less restrictive with every legislative session, not more restrictive.

You made a faulty assumption. Thats the only thing to be ashamed of.

 

[Old_Grouch]

There are plenty of corporate goons out laying "Green Acres" at the edge of rural/suburb regions. But, they are discovering that "country life" means living in the country. With all that entails.

We have a similar issue here. I've recently read two reports of immigrants from Libfornia moving to rural SD and complaining of "hearing gunfire" from neighboring property.