U.S. Guns Behind Cartel Killings in Mexico

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camacho

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Well folks, this is the latest from the media related to firearms. Now, the US guns are responsible not only for the crimes in the US but those in Mexico:confused: They are really raising the bar here.

The article is full of incorrect statements and suggestions. See for yourself. I think it is time for Tom Gresham's "Truth Squad" and all of us to get involved (in a respectful and polite manner) by sending well mannered emails and letters to both the editor and the journalist who wrote this article. Anyone who is not a gunny, and reads the article will be under the impression that you can walk in a gun show and walk out with fully automatic AKs, grenades, launchers, etc.


U.S. Guns Behind Cartel Killings in Mexico

By Manuel Roig-Franzia
Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, October 29, 2007; A01

TIJUANA, Mexico -- Assassins blasted Ricardo Rosas Alvarado, a member of an elite state police force, with a blizzard of bullets pumped out of AK-47 assault rifles.

Alvarado crumpled at the wheel of his sedan, yet another victim of the weapons known here as "goat's horns" because of their curved ammunition clips, and which can fire at a rate of 600 rounds per minute. The killing, Mexican authorities said, was a panorama of blood, shattered glass and torn metal that brutally showcased the firepower of Mexico's drug cartels. But that was just the warm-up.

Two hours later, a small army of cartel hit men descended on a federal police office and bunkhouse in this crowded city at one of the world's busiest border crossings. None of the officers, who had recently been sent here to crush the drug gangs terrorizing the city, were killed in the hail of more than 1,200 bullets, authorities said. But police veterans understood the message delivered to the newcomers: "Welcome to Tijuana. Our guns are bigger than your guns."

The high-powered guns used in both incidents on the evening of Sept. 24 undoubtedly came from the United States, say police here, who estimate that 100 percent of drug-related killings are committed with smuggled U.S. weapons.

The guns pass into Mexico through the "ant trail," the nickname for the steady stream of people who each slip two or three weapons across the border every day. The "ants" -- along with larger smuggling operations -- are feeding a rapidly expanding arms race between Mexican drug cartels.

The U.S. weapons -- as many as 2,000 enter Mexico each day, according to a Mexican government study -- are crucial tools in an astoundingly barbaric war between rival cartels that has cost 4,000 lives in the past 18 months and sent law enforcement agencies in Washington and Mexico City into crisis mode.

These drug traffickers, with their steady supply of U.S. weaponry, are the target of President Bush's proposed $500 million U.S. aid package to help Mexico battle cartels. Officials with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, or ATF, hope that some of the money will be used to give Mexican police chiefs greater access to U.S. databases for gun traces. Currently, the traces can be made only through federal police headquarters in Mexico City. Many police chiefs do not even bother to make requests because of the inevitable bureaucratic delays.

Corrupt customs officials help smuggle weapons into Mexico, earning as much as $1 million for large shipments, police here say. The weapons are often bought legally at gun shows in Arizona and other border states where loopholes allow criminals to stock up without background checks.

The arms traffickers have left Mexico awash in AK-47s, pistols, telescope sighting devices, grenades, grenade launchers and high-powered ammunition, such as the so-called cop-killer bullets believed to be able to penetrate bulletproof vests.

"You're looking at the same firepower here on the border that our soldiers are facing in Iraq and Afghanistan," Thomas Mangan, a spokesman in Phoenix for the ATF, said in an interview.

Weapons have been smuggled into Mexico for decades. For instance, the .38 Special used in 1994 to assassinate presidential candidate Luis Donaldo Colosio here in Tijuana was traced to a gun sale in Arizona. Mexico is a rich market for smugglers because it bans high-caliber automatic weapons -- even police are prohibited from using them -- and has strict gun laws that make it extremely difficult for members of the public to buy handguns.

But law enforcement officers on both sides of the border have never seen anything like the flood of guns now surging into Mexico. The increase has been stoked by the cartel war and by the ease of buying high-powered weapons since the U.S. assault weapons ban was not renewed in 2004, William Newell, a special agent in charge of the ATF's Phoenix office, said in an interview.

Arizona and Texas have become a "gunrunner's paradise," according to Garen Wintemute, a professor at the University of California at Davis who published a study on gun buying in the Southwest. Licensed dealers must conduct background checks, but unlicensed sellers can sell "personal collections" at weekend gun shows without background checks.

Laws on personal collections were established to allow people such as the widows of avid gun collectors to make sales without having to go through an elaborate licensing procedure. But unscrupulous sellers and buyers have taken advantage of the system, Newell said, setting up phony personal collections booths and making quick sales that are difficult to trace.

"It can take less than a minute," said Wintemute, who has watched unlicensed dealers wearing sandwich boards at gun shows and piling weapons for sale into baby carriages.

Authorities have tracked smugglers who bought dozens of weapons at various shows in a single weekend. The guns are often purchased by middlemen, or straw purchasers, who sometimes get on-the-spot instructions by cellphone from Mexican drug traffickers. The straw purchasers often live in the United States, either legally or illegally.

A smuggler, or ant -- often the same person who bought the guns -- then slips the weapons into car trunks or false vehicle floors. Among the new weapons of choice for Mexican drug dealers are so-called variants of AK-47s and AR-15 assault rifles, which are shorter than standard models and can even be concealed in baggy pant legs, Newell said.

As in the drug trade, young women are often recruited as weapons smugglers, Newell said, because they are less likely to be targeted by inspectors. Smugglers frequently work in teams, he said, distracting border inspectors by dispatching a man "who looks like he just got out of prison" to stand in front of a young woman carrying a baby and hidden weapons.

"She looks cute and she's nicely dressed," Newell said. "While they're checking the guy, the young girl glides right through."

But some smugglers don't need to bother with diversionary tactics.

Jorge Gonz¿lez Betancourt, president of the national defense committee in the lower house of Mexico's Congress, acknowledged in an interview that "corruption in the customs system" allows guns and drugs to transit Mexico. The customs agency is coming under greater scrutiny, especially since the recent arrest of the head of inspections at the port of Altamira, north of Tampico, who is accused of letting 12 tons of cocaine enter the country.

In August, Mexican authorities in Nogales, across the border from Arizona, seized 163 weapons in one of the largest busts in recent Mexican history.

Mexican customs officials say they can inspect only a tiny fraction of the 65,000 vehicles and 35,000 pedestrians that each day cross the border at Tijuana, a city where countless underage Californians have flocked for generations to drink and carouse.

Piles of guns make it through, many ending up in the hands of Tijuana's powerful drug cartels. But other weapons bounce farther south, creating what V¿ctor Manuel Zatara¿n Cedano, the Tijuana police director, called the city's "trampoline" effect.

Mexican government arms-seizure figures show a dramatic shift in the final destination of smuggled weapons. Once largely centered in border states, the arms market appears to be concentrating in Michoacan, the home state of Mexican President Felipe Calder¿n and a favorite of tourists who flock there for the annual migration of millions of monarch butterflies. In the first 10 months of 2007, more than 1,200 weapons were seized in Michoacan, four times as many as were seized in border states such as Baja California and Chihuahua.

The smugglers are willing to take risks for the promise of huge profits. An AK-47 that sells for $200 to $800 at an Arizona gun show can be sold for four times that much in Mexico, according to Newell, the Phoenix ATF special agent.

Not all of the guns are headed for drug traffickers. It is common for migrants to pick up one or two handguns in the United States to sell when they return to their villages, said Victor Clark, a human rights advocate based in Tijuana. Some of the villagers want guns to protect themselves against thuggish drug dealers who rule parts of rural Mexico, but others have scores to settle.

"There are parts of the state of Oaxaca where they're always fighting about land rights," Clark said. "You go to those villages and everybody's got a gun."

Outside the office of Zatara¿n Cedano, the Tijuana police director, a man always stands guard with an AR-15 rifle. Inside, Zatara¿n Cedano wears a handgun strapped over his shoulder and is surrounded by armed men.

Since taking over one of Mexico's largest police forces 20 months ago, Zatara¿n Cedano has buried 18 officers, including three district chiefs. His second-in-command went down last September, when killers came at him on a city street with machine guns; he had only a pistol.

Zatara¿n Cedano, who equips most of his employees with handguns, has just 150 AR-15 rifles to spread among 3,000 officers. Arms smugglers bring more than that into Mexico in a typical two-hour period.

"We have to find a better filter," he said wearily. "We're losing."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/28/AR2007102801654.html?hpid=topnews
 
Arms smugglers bring more than that into Mexico in a typical two-hour period.

So he's saying arms smugglers are bringing 657,000 AR15's into Mexico yearly?
365 days x 12 two-hour periods per day x 150 AR15's per typical two-our period = 657,000. Yeah, okay, and I'll sell you this shiney penney for $50 if you believe that.
 
Let's see. According to the article, all the bad guys AKs came from America. Where did the good guys AR-15s come from? Mexico City?
And in Mexico, it is illegal to own firearms unless you are the police or the military. See how well gun control works?
 
Oh, so the United States is the source for Mexico's crime now? What a shift, considering that at least 27% of those in the Federal Prison system are illegal aliens, and 63% of those are from Mexico. And once again with the non-existent "gun-show loophole." This is possible one of the most moronic pieces of so called journalism I have read in some time.
 
If the smuggled fully automatic AK-47s undoutably came for the "United States", would someone mind naming for me the company in the US that manufactures full auto AK-47s?

*chirp*
*chirp*
*chirp*

The weapons are often bought legally at gun shows in Arizona and other border states where loopholes allow criminals to stock up without background checks.
Gee, I can get a full auto AK-47 at a gunshow without a background check... legally?

Um... yeah,... no.

The arms traffickers have left Mexico awash in AK-47s, pistols, telescope sighting devices, grenades, grenade launchers and high-powered ammunition, such as the so-called cop-killer bullets believed to be able to penetrate bulletproof vests.
When did scopes become a prohibited item?

Oh, and just to get all the buzz-words in... don't forget, "Dum Dums"
Among the new weapons of choice for Mexican drug dealers are so-called variants of AK-47s and AR-15 assault rifles, which are shorter than standard models and can even be concealed in baggy pant legs
:rolleyes: I've got to try that one... An AK in my pants...




Usual, often refuted made up BS story.
 
"Outside the office of Zatara¿n Cedano, the Tijuana police director, a man always stands guard with an AR-15 rifle. Inside, Zatara¿n Cedano wears a handgun strapped over his shoulder and is surrounded by armed men."

Too bad the citizens of Mexico don't have the same resources "to protect themselves against thuggish drug dealers who rule parts of rural Mexico".

"Corrupt customs officials help smuggle weapons into Mexico..."
They mean corrupt MEXICAN officials.

"The weapons are often bought legally at gun shows in Arizona and other border states where loopholes allow criminals to stock up without background checks."

Criminals are not allowed to buy guns even in Arizona, so those guns could not possibly be purchased legally.

Also the Headline instead of reading
"U.S. Guns Behind Cartel Killings in Mexico"
should read
"Mexican Drug Lords Behind Cartel Killings in Mexico"

But it is always easier to blame the American gun owners. What a load of crap!
 
While the article is full of errors, the general rule on the border is that drugs and undocumented aliens tend to come north and cash and guns tend to go south.
 
Maybe we should look at shoring up the border a bit. Naaa. That would be to simple to figure out...

Geezz..
 
Heck, if we won't put up a wall maybe they will!

Of course, as we know the source for most of their arms--and all of the full auto ones--is local Mexican cops and military units. Everybody finds it more convenient to blame the US. Not just on this subject, but on EVERY subject. So they raise a stink, GW gives them billions more in support, and the weapons they buy with that money get sold at a profit to the drug runners. Around and around it goes.
 
We should make a deal with Mexico. They stop funneling drugs and illegal immigrants North, and we'll stop sending guns South.


Simple. :p
 
A renewal of the AWB has been introduced in Congress. Unable to find enough U.S. crime committed with those "evil" guns, the antis are now doing an "outreach" program to blame U.S. "assault rifles" for all the crime in the world.

Of course, the article is made up of lies. BTW, there are rumors that the main source of AK-47's (full auto) in Mexico is (guess where?) China. Some of those guns are coming from the U.S. but it is just a transit point for guns smuggled through West Coast ports and headed straight for Mexico, not U.S. gun shows.

Jim
 
Most any one of us could tell you where the firearms in question came from by a basic inspection and check of the markings and workings. But it's interesting to note how nobody seems to have a concrete example of one of these firearms to show us or any expert. It's fear mongering and third rate journalism walking hand in hand again.
 
The one thing I take away from this article is the obvious. Smuggling is easy. Trying to stop crime by stopping smuggling is a policy that fails every time. It failed during Prohibition. It failed during the War On Drugs. In states the prohibit fireworks, it fails every 4th of July. It will fail here also.
 
A little comedic math:

If we use the articles 2,000 guns per day figure, that gives us a total of 730,000 guns per year.

We have about 1 gun show per month here in Dallas. If we were to figure four or so major show locations in AZ (Tucson, PHX, Flagstaff, ???) to give us four per month in AZ... times twelve months = 48 shows. Double it and round off just for kicks to a slightly unbelievable 100 gunshows per year in AZ..

730,000 (guns) / 100 (shows) = 7,300 guns per show going across the border.

Okay, I don't have any hard figures on how many guns are actually sold at a gunshow... but 7,300 going across the border per show would cause a very obvious and noticable traffic situation.

That's just comedic.
 
The other message in that article is that the noble, vigilant and honest Mexican police cannot enforce the laws against drug smuggling to the U.S. because American guns are used by drug cartels. If the U.S. just banned guns, the virtuous Mexican cops would stop drug smuggling and illegal emigration in an instant.

Do they really expect any sane person to believe that crap?

Jim
 
The arms traffickers have left Mexico awash in AK-47s, pistols, telescope sighting devices, grenades, grenade launchers and high-powered ammunition, such as the so-called cop-killer bullets believed to be able to penetrate bulletproof vests.

I really need to goto an Arizona gun show. I guess they have suspended the NFA.
 
This thing's got so much BS it can qualify as propaganda. Stuffing ARs in your pants leg? Live grenades at a gunshow? And the eternal 'cop-killer bullets'...

The reporter is blathering. He doesn't have a clue what he's talking about, he's just jumping at the chance to claim that evil US gun owners are shipping heavy artillery to drug dealers.
 
The other message in that article is that the noble, vigilant and honest Mexican police cannot enforce the laws against drug smuggling to the U.S. because American guns are used by drug cartels. If the U.S. just banned guns, the virtuous Mexican cops would stop drug smuggling and illegal emigration in an instant.

Do they really expect any sane person to believe that crap?

Jim

Yes Jim, because it's true. The AK-47 was developed by Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov who was born in Kurya, Altai Territory, a suburb of Atlanta, Georgia. His real name is George W. Bush. As everyone knows, it's all his fault. Everything.

Under the pseudonym Mickey Tim Kelly he founded the NRA. As Wayne La Pierre, another pseudonym, he currently is its Executive Secretary. Kalashnikov-Bush-Kelly-La Pierre has a great many pseudonyms. In fact he is every member of this forum except you and me, and I'm not too sure about you.

Oh. Sorry, I just reread your message. You were talking about sane people.
 
This is obviously right wing propaganda meaning to scare us into believing we need guns to protect us from armed Mexicans. Any sane person knows guns are not allowed to be smuggled over the border.
 
More Mexican BS with the primary objective of covering up their own government's failings........And a 25X multiplier on numbers just makes the story better, don't you know.......

Perhaps the most sensible suggestion presented would put a quick lie to most of this nonsense. That is, run the serials on all those "assault weapons" and full auto weapons. If they were imported to the U.S. BATFE has to have a record, as does the importer, plus records on who he consigned/sold them to, and so on.....

Another aspect is the reporter's alleged knowledge of 'straw purchases'. If the knows/observes and does nothing he's guilty of conspiracy/collusion. If so many 'straw purchases' took place in such a confined area as AZ, it'd be the talk of the show circut, anyway.

And then there's this.....The President of Venezuela just bought a huge amount of Soviet Bloc infantry arms......and he's no lover of the U.S. Now a suspicious person might just hazard an opinion the weapons that buy replaced might just have found a buyer.....and the President a windfall..... >MW
 
I don't know who the BATF agent in Phoenix is (if indeed he's real) but if he is, he'd know that gunshows of any consequence that are held in Arizona are filled with agents from just about all of the Federal agencies known to man. Add to that state and local law enforcement people - both plainclothed and uniformed - and you know that the gunshow was the last place to conduct any monkey business. If this situation wasn't so serious it would be funny. ;)
 
It is just journalists reading the writings of other journalists and expanding on it as if it is fact. When people hear a similar story from several sources they begin to accept it as fact and start writing comments on thier own version of these "facts". The readers then see these stories and opinions coming from multiple sources and it gives them even more underserved credibility

We had a similar story not long ago posted and commented on.

A similar thing happened to prove Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. Multiple sources had proof, and were telling the story as if they came from a variety of sources. In the end however after the war already began people decided to follow up on the stories. Turns out they all stemmed from a single location that happened to be incorrect, and a refuge that was getting a sweet deal by telling whatever story allowed him to become an American.

More journalists are going to read these stories, take them as fact, and start adding thier own little tidbits, like hiding AKs in assault pants. Walking down the street with an AK down your pants leg has got to be interesting. No doubt it has a 30 round magazine inserted at the same time. "Is that an AK magazine or are you just happy to see me".
I am sure the streets are crawling with limping men with large horizontal magazine bulges.
 
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