U.S. Guns Behind Cartel Killings in Mexico

[camacho]

Do they really expect any sane person to believe that crap?

The sad party is people believe anything that is in the media these days especially the big media. Nowadays majority of the populace has lost its critical thinking, and things remain unchallenged. This happens all the time not only with the issues of gun rights but many other social issues.

This is why articles like that are very dangerous since they manipulate folks into believing something that is not true.

 

[islandphish]

To me the scariest thing about this article is that it highlights the problems with reporting today.

We know a lot about guns. So every time there is a bad article like this one we can spot it out. But most of the time we aren't as informed about the issues in the WaPost or NyTimes. So we miss the problems, perhaps we even believe the false information.

It's scary when you look at it in those terms.

 

[modifiedbrowning]

That was a great Onion article, thanks for the laugh. Oh, wait a sec..
So, 730,000 Full auto rifles, grenades and grenade launchers are privately sold every year at AZ gunshows. I need to move ASAP.

 

[brickeyee]

Any full autos are more likely coming in from Mexico's southern border, along with plenty of illegals heading north to the US border.

 

[Slugless]

+1 islandphish

"Advertisements... contain the only truths to be relied on in a newspaper." --Thomas Jefferson to Nathaniel Macon, 1819. ME 15:179

 

[Regolith]

To me the scariest thing about this article is that it highlights the problems with reporting today.

We know a lot about guns. So every time there is a bad article like this one we can spot it out. But most of the time we aren't as informed about the issues in the WaPost or NyTimes. So we miss the problems, perhaps we even believe the false information.

It's scary when you look at it in those terms.

Yup. I pretty much came to this conclusion after that fiasco with the .50 caliber black powder rifle that some kid brought onto a NY college campus. Within a news article about that story the "news" agency had a picture of a Berrett M80 .50 BMG and tried to compare it to the kid's black powder gun.

After that I came to the realization that most journalists have no clue about what the hell they're writing about.

 

[jungleroy]

Wait their trusting the Mexican police when they say the guns must have come from America?
Perhaps the forgot the word south or central in front of the word America.
Also the hail of 1200 bullets, how do they know? Did they pick up all of the bullets or spent casings? I really doubt it.
Sounds like bull by the truckload. How do you combat that much bull.
Start planting flowers in it as fast as you can.

 

[doubleg]

I have only one word to say about all of this...

GOOD

 

[the pistolero]

Who do these people think they are? What else do they expect when the borders leak like a sieve? Did they really expect illegal aliens or contraband to only flow north? Good grief, even in Britain, which is a blasted island for cryin' out loud, people who want guns bad enough can get them. Unless all the reports of crime committed with guns in the UK are just part of a huge trick being played by the media. And I don't quite think the media are that far gone. Yet...

 

[akodo]

telescope sighting devices, grenades, grenade launchers and high-powered ammunition, such as the so-called cop-killer bullets believed to be able to penetrate bulletproof vests.

That's your basic 30-06 Winchester model 70 for you.

The weapons are often bought legally at gun shows in Arizona and other border states where loopholes allow criminals to stock up without background checks.

False, the loophole doesn't make it legal, it just means no check for face-to-face, something that is not restricted to gunshows.

Mexico is a rich market for smugglers because it bans high-caliber automatic weapons -- even police are prohibited from using them -- and has strict gun laws that make it extremely difficult for members of the public to buy handguns

+

Outside the office of Zatara¿n Cedano, the Tijuana police director, a man always stands guard with an AR-15 rifle.

EVEN THE MEXICAN POLICE ACTIVELY AND CONTINUALLY BREAK THE LAW!
It is illegal for even the police to have "high-caliber automatic weapons" which is what this journalist would brand that AR-15, be it select fire or not, were it in the hands of a criminal. There is a chance of course that the writer knew his termenology and chose automatic, meaning fully automatic/burst rather than semi automatic, and hoping the reader does not (because a story about how criminals from one country smuggle something into another country when it is illegal in both usually is followed by a call for more border enforcement, not calls to make unrelated items also illegal)

However, in general media parlance, semiautomatic IS automatic, and judging by the amount of corruption in the Mexican government, I wouldn't put it past the Mexican Police to get illegal guns themselves. Hell, that police officer with the AR-15 is probably going to 'loose' the gun for a $500 bribe next month, and then they will go borrow another AR-15 from the military or get one sent to replace it on the government dime again.

I have heard that handguns in mexico come from two places, smuggled in from the US, and police officers selling their duty weapon then claiming it was stolen.

That is the real problem, not guns, but a government rife with corruption. You know what Mexico needs? More guns. One rifle in the hands of every citizen, and then they can drive every member of the government, every person who draws a government paycheck, into the sea.

 

[Halo is for Kids]

Mexican authorities said

-All credibility was lost after this point...

who estimate that 100 percent of drug-related killings are committed with smuggled U.S. weapons.

-Estimate and 100% in the same sentence???

To much wrong with this article to even waist time responding,
I feel like a broken robot... "This statement is a lie. If it's a lie it must be true? If it's true it must be a lie? Does not compute! Does not compute!" (Critical logic unit failure, head explodes.)

 

[crazed_ss]

Actually, I think there's some truth in the article there about US guns flowing into Mexico. I have friends in Tijuana and they're shocked that we (average citizens in the US) can walk into a gun store and buy weapons. Sure they can get guns illegally if they want, but you have to know someone and it's a shady business.

Even for the gangs, it's much easier for them to have some one in the US purchase 30 AKs in Arizona or Texas and drive them accross the border than it is for this to deal with some black market gun-runner. Much less hassle and cheaper too.

.. And they love their AKs down there, they even have a nickname for it, "Cuerno de Chivo"

Now I'm not saying we have a responsibility to do anything about US guns going to Mexico. It's their problem if people cant control themselves.. Just saying their is some truth to the story.

 

[obxned]

Hey, lets build a huge wall to keep the evil Americans from entering that paradise of law and traquility just to the south of our border.

 

[camacho]

i

t's much easier for them to have some one in the US purchase 30 AKs in Arizona or Texas and drive them accross the border than it is for this to deal with some black market gun-runner. Much less hassle and cheaper too.

With all due respect I found this hard to believe. Thirty automatic AK-47, I do not think so. Even semi-autos I doubt. Purchasing 30 AKs at a gun show sounds a bit far fetched. I can see some pistols/revolvers making its way from a gun show across the border, but shipment of 30 AKs. Any prove of that ever happened?

 

[devilc]

MeJico continues to import Chinese automatic weapons.
Many of the MeJican gangs such as the Zetas are ex-special forces members who have access to the great black-market in small arms.
Much of organized crime in MeJico is backed by law enforcement and/or the military.
I am sure there are a few guns going south.
It's worth noting that remittances of cash from MeJicans working in the USA is MeJico's #2 source of income.
What's #1? OIL!

The immigration debate has as much to do with oil as anything else.
We need MeJican oil MORE then we need Saudi oil.

 

[Destructo6]

I don't doubt that many of the weapons used by border narco traffickers are sourced from the US.

Recently, a RV from Kent, Washington was stopped by Mexican authorities and some 600 firearms were found concealed inside (compartments and such). Oddly as it may seem, there were only a handful of Ar or AK types, with the vast majority being .22lr rifles and pistols. Shotguns made up the remainder. Almost all were traced to Washington state.

 

[waterhouse]

With all due respect I found this hard to believe. Thirty automatic AK-47, I do not think so. Even semi-autos I doubt. Purchasing 30 AKs at a gun show sounds a bit far fetched. I can see some pistols/revolvers making its way from a gun show across the border, but shipment of 30 AKs. Any prove of that ever happened?

I don't believe the full autos are coming from dealers in the US either, but I have no doubt about the semi autos. I've both worked for the Border Patrol and spoken with ATF agents who are on the task force trying to stop this. I don't want to get into a whole lot of details due to opsec and all, but it is not uncommon to catch large shipments of guns (semi auto) heading south.

Remember you don't have to walk out of a gun show with 30 rifles. You and your partners in crime can hit up a couple of pawn shops in each of the border towns and have your 30 rifles in no time.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

"But most of the time we aren't as informed about the issues in the WaPost or NyTimes. So we miss the problems, perhaps we even believe the false information."

So knowing that the media is either uninformed as to the facts or are deliberately lying to push their own agenda, why would you even read anything by them? If ABC, CBS or NBC says it, I don't believe it. Same with newspapers, and periodicals. They simply are not credible sources.

 

[crazed_ss]

I don't believe the full autos are coming from dealers in the US either, but I have no doubt about the semi autos. I've both worked for the Border Patrol and spoken with ATF agents who are on the task force trying to stop this. I don't want to get into a whole lot of details due to opsec and all, but it is not uncommon to catch large shipments of guns (semi auto) heading south.

Remember you don't have to walk out of a gun show with 30 rifles. You and your partners in crime can hit up a couple of pawn shops in each of the border towns and have your 30 rifles in no time

Exactly what I was eluding too..

 

[Soybomb]

Corrupt customs officials
*snip*
Officials with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, or ATF, hope that some of the money will be used to give Mexican police chiefs greater access to U.S. databases for gun traces.

Sounds like we should trust them completely.

The whole article is mind boggling. It sounds to me like out of control drug cartels are behind the killings in mexico, not the guns. That of course neglects the humor in talking about outrage that drug cartels get guns because they're illegal.

 

[Waitone]

US guns make it to Mexico? No doubt some do make it.

Real AK-47's from the US? Kinda doubt it. Most likely the source is offshore trans shipping through the US. (NAFTA's a wonnerful thang)

US guns are therefore the cause of the orgy of killing in northern Mexico? Latest variant on the "guns cause crime" argument so boring here in the US.

What this story represents is the latest front in gun control. Anti-gunners in the US failed in congress, failed in the states, and are failing in the courts. Latest gambit is use international agreements as a way of crushing the second amendment. Notice the number of initiative in different areas to incorporate international law in US code. The article under discussion is just one more beat on the drum. I expect to see article after article spaced 1 to 2 months apart until some blissninny grows the spine to actually advocate using some agreement against the second amendment. I can't demonstrate anything but I would suspect relevant provisions in the various agreements we've already signed are identified for use. Now all that remains for the circumstances to present the opportunity to force the issue.

 

[devilc]

Yes.
This rhetoric is pure SOROS.

 

[Zoogster]

Officials with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, or ATF, hope that some of the money will be used to give Mexican police chiefs greater access to U.S. databases for gun traces.

Great the registry that does not exist legaly will be able to be browsed by corrupt mexican officials. What a thing to be hopeful about.

I learned that many of these illegal databases are stored with private companies, and just open to access by government officials. That way they are "technicaly" not breaking the law by having the database to begin with. They might feed the information to it to create the database, but they don't store it or "maintain" it themselves, thereby working around the law or at least in enough of thier minds that it has become the consensus.

That is how they get away with having databases for non gun related things that they are specificly prohibited from having.
The ATF though tends to be a bit bold and defiant so they may in fact just keep it themselves even though the law expressely forbids them from doing so. The same act that prohibited private sales of machineguns made after that date also prohibited them from having records to begin with. One is upheld, the other conveniently ignored.

I imagine it will include state databases too. CCW holders, states that register at purchase, or require an ID. Most of those are available to and likely periodiclybacked up by the feds for easier browsing. So what gun databases exactly will Mexican officials be browsing?

 

[Mannlicher]

written by a mexican for the WaPo, what a surprise its anti American.

 

[SpeedAKL]

Wow, I didn't know I could buy full-auto AK-47s from US gun shows for between $200-800.