U.S. Guns Blamed for Mexican Drug Problems

[elktrout]

Many gun owners warned what an Obama administration would do. And, various posts have appeared on this forum about it. Along those lines, you should get a copy of today's Wall Street Journal and read the article on page A8. It is a lengthy article, and I won't try to quote all of it here. But here is a synopsis of the article:

1. The U.S. has complained that Mexico does an insufficient job of curtailing the drugs flowing into the U.S. from Mexico.
2. Mexico, in turn, has blamed the U. S. for the escalating violence by the drug cartels there because the cartels use "intermediaries" across the border in Arizona to buy them guns and ammo.
3. These "intermediaries" are U.S. citizens with clean records who lie on the ATF purchase form and then sell the guns to the drug cartels and collect a $100 bonus for lying on the forms.
4. The state Attorney General in Arizona is prosecuting a gun shop owner who supposedly sold guns knowingly to intermediaries who in turn transferred them to Mexican drug cartel members.
5. Assault weapons and .50 caliber Barrett rifles are the weapons of choice, and the expiration of the Clinton assault weapons ban has resulted in a spike of these weapons in Mexico.
6. Attorney General Eric Holder announced last week that the Obama administration would push for the reinstitution of the assault weapons ban.
7. GET THIS ONE --- "No one knows how many weapons cross the border into Mexico each year. Unlike contraband drugs, which are consumed, contraband guns 'remain in circulation until they are captured'", says Terry Goddard, the Arizona AG. (Then, after this admission about the number of weapons crossing the border, the writer states in the second following paragraph) "U.S. officials acknowledge that U.S. gun laws are partly to blame. The 1994 ban on the sale of assault weapons like AK47s in the U.S. led to a decrease of such weapons south of the border. But the ban expired in 2004, and the numbers in Mexico spiked."

Isn't this absurd? Drugs are better than guns because you consume them. Well, pardon the @#$% out of me, if that isn't one of the stupidest things ever printed in a paper. The article also does not mention that any arrests were made of the intermediaries. It fails to mention that Mexico has failed to control the drug business for decades, not just now. But, here comes the Obama boys ready to blame the U.S. even though they admit they do not know the extent of the problem.

Of course, in the same edition of the WSJ, is an article that reports that Eric Holder announced that the administration "would keep a campaign promise by ending federal raids on medical marijuana dispensaries". The writer calls this "A Stimulus Plan for Mexican Gangsters". Yep, Holder is an upstanding guy.

Sorry for the length of this post, but I realize that the WSJ is not the most popular newpaper around. It is certainly clear that we are in for the biggest fight in the history of this nation to stop the gun grabbers. Our Founding Fathers would loathe the trends in our government. JOIN THE NRA OR RENEW IF YOU ALREADY BELONG.

 

[Zoogster]

Mexican drug problems are due to an American demand for illegal drugs, and people willing to supply that demand and resist those who try to stop them, both LEO and rivals.

As long as there is sources of drugs in Latin America, a demand for drugs in the United States, and people willing to create a network to connect the two there will be problems.

It has nothing to do with guns.

From wiki, most of which is verified with better sources:

Los Zetas have set up camps in which to train recruits as well as ex-federal, state, and local police officers. In addition, they have invited into their ranks ex-troops from Guatemala known as Kaibiles.

The group is extremely well armed, they wear body armor and some wear Kevlar ballistic helmets; their arsenal includes AR-15 and AK-47 rifles, MP5 submachine guns, 50 cal. machine guns, grenade launchers, ground-to-air missiles, dynamite and helicopters.[5] They are known to operate with modern wiretapping equipment and purchase the cellular phone codes of their intended targets directly from the phone companies and providers.

Los Zetas is known to operate with a higher tactical degree than the local authorities. During one shootout against law enforcement the group employed grenade launchers and 50 cal. machine guns.[2] The group has been linked to monitoring and kidnapping of journalists, and the murder of rival cartel members and their families.[3] Los Zetas gang has been known to hire local gangs such as the Texas Syndicate, MS-13 and Hermanos Pistoleros Latinos to carry out contract killings.[3][11]

Often, Los Zetas operate while uniformed as Federal Preventive Police and driving similarly labeled vehicles. In addition to conducting activities along the border, they are visible throughout the Gulf Coast region, in the Southern states of Tabasco, Yucatan, Quintana Roo, and Chiapas, and in the Pacific Coast states of Guerrero, Oaxaca, and Michoacán, as well as in Mexico City.[12] Evidence also indicates that they may be active in Texas and, possibly, other U.S. states.[13]

There are several other Los Zetas groups in addition to commandos. Los Halcones (The Hawks) keep watch over distribution zones and use 2 meter radio band. Las Ventanas (The Windows) comprise bike-riding youngsters in their mid-teens who whistle to warn of the presence of police and other suspicious individuals near small stores that sell drugs. Los Mañosos (The Discerning (Picky) Ones) acquire arms; Los Leopardos (Leopards) are prostitutes who slyly extract information from their clients; and Dirección (Command) are approximately 20 communications experts who intercept phone calls, follow and identify suspicious automobiles, and even accomplish kidnappings and executions.[14][5]

Los Zetas are involved in myriad criminal activities. They have branched out into kidnappings, murder-for-hire, extortion, money-laundering and human smuggling. For security purposes, Los Zetas have adopted a cell-like structure to limit the information that any one member of the organization knows about his associates.

These are people primarily from Law Enforcement. Thier training comes from the same training given to US "Special Forces" and other operators intended to combat drug cartels in the past.
So these are people trained to be the best at fighting the drug cartels who simply became the cartels themselves. They then setup training grounds to teach new people everything they learned from our best in the USA.

They operate in fire teams. They have helicopters! They impersonate federal agents and the Mexican Army, dressing in thier complete uniforms, with marked vehicles, and even know the proper protocols. Why? Because many of them are ex-FEDERAL AGENTS and ex-military, or have been trained by those who are.
They have many contacts who are still in the government, and they have a lot of money.

Anyone who believes they would not have sources for equipment if no Mexicans aquired guns from the US is naive.
In light of this if you were a Mexican citizen would you not want to aquire illegal firearms for personal protection, or even revolt against the corruption that encourages it?
The people aquiring illegal US firearms are not usualy the drug cartels. In fact the drug cartels and corrupt government would like to see any sources of arms the citizens could oppose them with stopped as well.

You cannot defeat them, when a leader is captured another takes their place. When a cartel is destroyed, others expand thier territory and some fragment into new sophisticated rivals.
As long as there is billions of dollars up for grabs supplying a simple product to the United States they will exist. As long as that much money is involved they will be able to aquire anything available to the Mexican government, including guns.

A sampling of gear typical to even the less sophisticated groups:

Complete with federal uniforms and body armor.
Grenades, RPGS, and belt fed machineguns are not uncommon either.

 

[cbrgator]

Isn't it ironic how its OUR job to stop guns from going into Mexico because THEY can't secure THEIR border. Are we holding Mexico responsible for stemming the flow of illegal immigrants? Course not. An AWB for the purpose of stemming weapons to Mexico is a ridiculous excuse for long awaited liberal legislation. If people are buying this crap, I'd be shocked. Actually, nah I probably wouldn't be.

 

[Bill_Rights]

Very well and succinctly put, Gator.

As Zoog said, the

Mexican drug problem....has nothing to do with guns.

 

[4Freedom]

I can easily buy anything you see in that picture at our local sporting goods or tactical store. I just bought a few hundred grenades and a rocket launcher myself at Sportsman Warehouse. We really need to stop allowing this or the Mexican drug war will never end..

 

[2RCO]

Yeah I'm sure they got those nifty launchers straw purchased for them at a Texas Wal Mart. Jeez-do ya think maybe they are lifting this stuff from the Federales and Mexican Army---Hmmm since half the Generals are on the payroll of these clowns I'm pretty sure they turn a blind eye to a few "ftf transfers."

 

[2RCO]

Also is that Darth Vader in the background or Gecko_45?

 

[lanternlad1]

Legalize drugs and the problems go away. Destroy the economic base of the cartels. Simple as that.

 

[jackdanson]

Complete with federal uniforms and body armor.
Grenades, RPGS, and belt fed machineguns are not uncommon either.

Dang, they are sneaking m203's across the border, they must be getting those from those vile gun shows!

I wish I did have access to the weapons that the AG implies we have access to, that would be sweet.

Also is that Darth Vader in the background or Gecko_45?

It's not Gecko, he affixes his body plates with duct tape.

 

[R3dundantC]

Legalize drugs and the problems go away. Destroy the economic base of the cartels. Simple as that.

Please explain how that would not strengthen the cartels economic base. Maybe I am missing something.

 

[Truthseeker]

Mexico is a poor and corrupt country. The drug cartels have lots of money to spread around. Is it any wonder military arms and training find their way to the cartels? To blame Mexican arms on the U.S. is ludicrous.

With the money the cartels have, they can buy arms all over the world.

 

[ZombiesAhead]

Quote:
Legalize drugs and the problems go away. Destroy the economic base of the cartels. Simple as that.

Quote (R3dundantC):
Please explain how that would not strengthen the cartels economic base. Maybe I am missing something.

What do you mean by "economic base?" Ignoring issues of societal health risks caused by legalizing drugs, there is no doubt it would put an end to the black market for such drugs. When the government regulates and oversees the supply of drugs, there is no longer a black market. "Economic base" is a non-issue because the demand is supplied by a transparent, legitimate government and not a violent, underworld cartel. If a government is satisfying the demand through regulated, peaceful distribution there is no need for violent gangs.

 

[Zoogster]

Check out thier gold and silver guns with suppressors. Reminds you of something Saddam would have.

Dang, they are sneaking m203's across the border, they must be getting those from those vile gun shows!

Check out the grenades, rifle grenades, grenade launcher grenades.

The firearms come from the Mexican military, corrupt police, South American nations, and yes even the US. The purchasers of illegal guns include both police and citizens in addition to cartels. The amount of money involved is so large that cartels aquire whatever they want from wherever they want. Some of what they want is from within the US.

For political reasons many that don't like American gun rights and protections already choose to make it an American gun issue. The Mexican media even blames the US, while government corruption is rampant. The Mexican government and the cartels often work for eachother or play one against another. There is so much profit to be made and power to experience.

You can be sure those grenades were not from your local gunstore.
The RPGs used in numerous attacks though were probably sold right down the street from you!
(sarcasm)

Personaly I think the RKBA is an inalienable right. Mexico has a RKBA under Article 10 of thier constitution which has become meaningless under corruption. Even police must purchase illegal weapons for protection, nevermind the average citizen.
The government is corrupt and oppressive.
Maybe the voice of the citizens will become a little louder if more of them are armed.

I see no reason to blame the US or reduce American freedoms for problems in any other nation.
I imagine words in books printed in the US which are illegal elsewhere cause lots of problems. I wouldn't accept restrictions on the first Amendment because of that either.
The cartels with billions in profits will always be well armed.
Antis in the United States will always look for any angle to reduce freedoms in our nation.

Legalize drugs and the problems go away. Destroy the economic base of the cartels. Simple as that.

Please explain how that would not strengthen the cartels economic base. Maybe I am missing something.

It would destroy it. Think about it, drugs are an amazingly simple product, usualy plants grown with sun and dirt. Extremely simple processing to refine some. Yet because they are illegal the simple product is disproportionaly valuable. That value equates to massive wealth and power wielded by those involved. For distrubution of a product little more complex than a vegetable.
If they were worth the value of other plants the level of power would be greatly reduced. The violence to protect shipping routes would be eliminated.
In addition the criminal actions of users to supply expensive habits would also be reduced to almost nothing.
Most current illegal trafficking systems and routes would also dry up, not being cost effective for a cheap product.
Now there would of course be increased problems with addictions. Just like there is many alcoholics in our nation. Even many who function in society, work full time jobs, and pose the biggest danger to us when they are driving on the roads. They are not robbing us for thier next drink, burglarizing homes, or requiring billions in LEO resources to combat though.
Not perfect, but certainly much better than the result of prohibition.

 

[4Freedom]

You know what I am thinking? This is even more of a reason for them to legalize not just guns, but also machine guns, grenades , RPGs and anything else we can get our hands on which is not a weapon of mass destruction. WHy? Because these cartels are getting so powerful, I fear they wiill soon start coming to USA and trying to overthrow us, our homes, our cities. Really, these guys have more weapons than even some of our own military. Just imagine if they start launching stealthy attacks on our police departments or miliatry bases. A lot of these drug cartels are working with Mexican mliitary and police. Many have connections within the USA, itself.

Anyone watch Scarface? Did they reemember the scene with the drug baron who had a US Senator on his payroll. You can thank the liberals for helping their brothers down south.

I am saying its just a matter of time before they will launch invasion on our soil. BTW.. All these weapons they are acquiring from these corrupt nations can end up in the hands of terrorists for the right price and you know what their plans are.

 

[Davek1977]

I am saying its just a matter of time before they will launch invasion on our soil.

I think it would be rather silly for them to target US citizens on US soil. After all, if this is about drugs, it doesn't make much sense to kill off your customers. That would be like Gaotorade targeting professional sports teams for attacks..... Drug cartels care about MONEY, not taking over the US. Its not profitable to eliminate your customer base.

 

[elktrout]

4Freedom has a good point, though rebuttal may be true as well. What scares me is the information about the cartels fueling the use of gangs in the U.S. Within our own borders there is a war brewing that LEOs cannot contain for various debatable reasons. If we follow the new shepherd like the bleeting sheep his administration wants us to be, we will be just like the Russians with Stalin and the Germans with Hitler -- powerless and enslaved.

Where in the world is the Spirit of '76 if we don't keep it alive? It will be dead if the liberals get their way. Or, maybe we should "feel safe and warm" when the U.N. takes over the U.S. and burns out Constitution in a televised ceremony from none other than Philadelphia in our own country.

We need to read our Declaration of Independence. It tells us what to do if things get really bad.

 

[hso]

I don't see a point of law related to RKBA or Firearms being discussed here. Instead we're all over the board with politics and Mex vs US and now drug legalization. It would be suitable for General.

It's obvious that the Mexican government is playing the same blame game that antis and incompetent bureaucrats do here. "We're not at fault. YOU/GUNS are to blame."