U.S. passports to be implanted with RFID chips

[The Drew]

problem is, many of us DO travel to Canada and mexico on a regular basis, and the last I saw, passports were going to be required in the near future to get back into the country...

So, how does that microwave trick work again???

 

[DelayedReaction]

While I can certainly see the privacy ramifications, I suspect that their 'anti-snooping' measures are pretty much the same thing you guys are talking about. In other words, they probably have a conductive mesh embedded into the cover of the passport.

I'd rather they pick a method that doesn't broadcast my personal information everywhere, but then again when was the last time President Bush gave a about our civil liberties?

 

[Old Dog]

What are you guys worried about? Some of you are the same folks who claim that you never fly anywhere, anyway ... And with all the Canada and Mexico bashing on this board, I know none of y'all ever have occasion to enjoy our lovely border crossings ...

 

[c_yeager]

I would imagine that the entire purpose of an RFID chip in a passport is for verification of its authenticity. In all likelyhood the only "information" in that chip is going to be a number that calls up a refference in a database, much like a barcode, only harder to fake.

Of course the RFID is the new "number of the beast" craze, so its only natural that everyone will go crazy untill the technology is better understood (I seem to remember that the exact same thing happened with barcodes actually).

 

[Henry Bowman]

(I seem to remember that the exact same thing happened with barcodes actually)

And now the one on my forehead is obsolete! Oh well, it's almost worn off from so much :banghead: anyway.

 

[Manedwolf]

I would imagine that the entire purpose of an RFID chip in a passport is for verification of its authenticity. In all likelyhood the only "information" in that chip is going to be a number that calls up a refference in a database, much like a barcode, only harder to fake.

Of course the RFID is the new "number of the beast" craze, so its only natural that everyone will go crazy untill the technology is better understood (I seem to remember that the exact same thing happened with barcodes actually).

Actually, the original plan I'd read of was to have the person's actual name and other such information on the chip...in clear text.

Since when do bureaucrats operate on common sense or good ideas?

 

[TheEgg]

Considering the hysteria being whipped up about the "bird flu" and a global pandemic:

It is too far fetched to suppose that the next thing will be your complete medical records stored in the RFID chip so that any country you go to can ensure that you are 'healthy'?

 

[c_yeager]

It is too far fetched to suppose that the next thing will be your complete medical records stored in the RFID chip so that any country you go to can ensure that you are 'healthy'?

Current RFID chips can hold a grand total of about 2000bits of data, and those are the big ones that are in corporate ID tags. That is slightly less than 2kilobytes of data. Your medical records simply wont fit into a 2kb file.

Its certainly possible that the chip would contain a person's name and vital statistics, but it would be kinda pointless since names are crappy identifyers. Plus, your name is already on your passport as it is. It would simply be more effecient that the chip would call to a database refference simply because a database would be able to hold so much more information (like your medical records )

EDIT: Im dumb and messed up the conversion. 2000 BITS actually = 0.2 Kilobytes. So its 1/5th of a single K of storage. Which is essentially 2000 characters of unformated text.

 

[Old Dog]

I agree with C Yeager's take on this. Much ado about nothing. I believe this is an accurate summation:
I

would imagine that the entire purpose of an RFID chip in a passport is for verification of its authenticity. In all likelyhood the only "information" in that chip is going to be a number that calls up a refference in a database, much like a barcode, only harder to fake.

 

[NCP24]

Much ado about nothing.

I don't think so.

 

[xd9fan]

land of the free

 

[Marnoot]

2000 BITS actually = 0.2 Kilobytes. So its 1/5th of a single K of storage. Which is essentially 2000 characters of unformated text.

2000 bits = 250 characters of unformatted text. Assuming ASCII encoding, it takes 8 bits to make a character.
If they store anything other than an arbitrary reference number, I'm completely opposed to it. Current RFID technology does not allow for encryption. Not enough power from the absorbed radio waves to power that kind of circuitry, not to mention the small storage space. So is there any info from a reliable source about exactly what info will be stored in reality?

 

[riverdog]

For those who already own (wear?) a tinfoil hat, making a small pouch for their passport will be much easier and should be very capable of blocking RFID leakage.

 

[Baba Louie]

I feel safer already...

Good to know that Uncle Sam is on the lookout for those pesky terror-types who can't figure out a way to get into this good old nation of ours undetected by bypassing Customs at a checkpoint along our secure border...

Meanwhile American Citizen's ID are being borrowed or stolen by computer literate non-terrorist type criminals... and our SSN's now the number one gov't supplied ID number available just about everywhere... (a Realtor w/in our building was broken into and had every CPU stolen, just for the home-buyers credit info they contained. Police told them it's widespread and hush-hush. Don't alarm the proles)

Gee. If only they'd link that pesky little 9-digit number to our gov't supplied DNA... everything would be Okey-Dokey... once they tattoo each citizen's wrist and implant an explosive, self-destructing tracking microchip...

Yeah, that's the ticket.

 

[BostonGeorge]

Don't have a passport. Whenever I traveled out of this country I never needed anything more than my ID card and travel orders. Since I no longer work for that employer I have no need to leave again!!

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

I can think of plenty of reasons to leave, I just haven't figured out where exactly I'd go yet.

 

[Nightfall]

Out of the 2,335 comments on the plan that were received by the State Department this year, 98.5 percent were negative. The objections mostly focused on security and privacy concerns.

But the Bush administration chose to go ahead...

I wonder what a government that actually believed in "the consent of the governed" would be like. Bet it'd be neat.

 

[kage genin]

I can see it now... hi-tech crooks scan somebody's passport chip, give the data to another hi-tech crook who cooks up an RFID chip with matching data, which can then be used to make fake passports. Very expensive, but effective, way to fake a passport for the illegal who can pay for it.

US Border Agent at airport: Hello, passport please?

Illegal Alien/Criminal at airport: Here you go. I'm sorry my passport got dropped in the
mud/run over by a car/trampled in the country I was visiting so that's why it's damaged.

US Border Agent: Oh no problem, we'll just scan the chip and we'll have all the information we can't read on the front of your passport...
<scan>
Ah, welcome back, Mr. Jones. Your new hairstyle suits you.

Illegal Alien/Criminal: Thank you, it's good to be back.
(tee hee hee... sucker)

Or we have scenario 2 - Faked RFID passports are used by criminals to bypass airport checks and flee/enter the country.

 

[Mk VII]

You can cook them in the microwave if you want. You just won't be allowed onto the plane. Or through the Customs barrier. Or on board the ship. They won't really care whether you miss your flight or not, it's not their money.

 

[Drewcat]

C Yeager, Marnoot;

From the article:

"But the Bush administration chose to go ahead with embedding 64KB chips in future passports,"

Should be able to get a fair amount of info. on that.

 

[c_yeager]

I can see it now... hi-tech crooks scan somebody's passport chip, give the data to another hi-tech crook who cooks up an RFID chip with matching data, which can then be used to make fake passports. Very expensive, but effective, way to fake a passport for the illegal who can pay for it.

Right, and then they run the passport through their reader and get the description of the 73 year old white female that the passport originally belonged to. its not like they cant copy them now, but this would be much harder and more expensive. Im not saying I like the RFID concept, but it does have a tangible benefit, and I havent seen any actual *factual* information regarding the downside yet.

 

[antarti]

I would imagine that the entire purpose of an RFID chip in a passport is for verification of its authenticity. In all likelyhood the only "information" in that chip is going to be a number that calls up a refference in a database, much like a barcode, only harder to fake.

As mentioned above, a 64K chip will be in there. Plenty of room for lots of info and even encryption firmware. My first computer in 1976 was considered "loaded out" with that much memory.

If there's a wire mesh in the cover, I'd be leery of putting it in a microwave, as it may spark and discolor/burn the cover. Finding the chip, soaking a small area around it, and heating it up real nice with a soldering iron should work just fine. A dead-blow from a hammer, or bending it in a vice is an alternative.

 

[Marnoot]

From the article:

"But the Bush administration chose to go ahead with embedding 64KB chips in future passports,"

Should be able to get a fair amount of info on that.

Guess I missed that. Now I'm really interested in what info exactly will be on there, because as I mentioned RFID is incapable of live-encryption. The circuitry would fit, and the firmware could fit in the memory, but there is not enough power gained from the absorbed radio waves to power encryption circuitry. They can encrypt something and stick it on there, but that would be pretty vulnerable / worthless if the key was ever leaked.

Edit: Some googling has shown me that there are in fact some RFID encryption systems now. Darn technology, always changing on me!!

 

[c_yeager]

As mentioned above, a 64K chip will be in there. Plenty of room for lots of info and even encryption firmware. My first computer in 1976 was considered "loaded out" with that much memory.

Im thinking it would have to be an RFID transmitter for identification and a chip for scannable storage. Kinda seems like they are using the RFID like a WAP for the chip, would that work? I dont know if thats been done before, its beyond the usual application of RFIDs. It does seem pretty odd now.

 

[silverbird]

Don't look at me: I voted for Badnarik, the Libertarian candidate last time around.

+1 on that


Just renewed my passport...doesn't expire until 2015.

 

[BozemanMT]

yet at the same time police agencies around the country use cad systems (computer aided dispatch) that swap your personal information between the patrol, precinct and central database a few hundred times a year, all wireless on very crude radio waves with mediocre encryption.

so far, i haven't heard of anyone hacking that system..

I work on these systems. We're in no danger anytime soon.
From a technical standpoint, TOTAL freaking disaster.
they are all custom built for each department, they barely talk to each other, and the technology used is state of the art.
for 1992.
Really bad.