Uberti .45 Colt Top break questions and more.

[Oninotaki]

This is a long one. TLDR I got lots of questions about .45 caliber SA revolvers and lever guns because I accidentally discovered .45 Cowboy Special over the weekend. This lead me down a whole rabbit hole of .45 caliber pistol cartridge discovers, ideas, and questions.

Before we go further here is some information for context. First, I only shoot 3 caliber families from pistols, and I am not looking to expand beyond those at this time. Those families are .22, .32, and .45. Second I much prefer revolvers to semi autos, so I am not looking for any advice on those at this time. Third I really like handgun/long arm matching pairs and that is why I have some lever action questions in this thread about .45 caliber pistol cartridges. Fourth I find wood furniture to be gorgeous and plastic furniture to be boring so I am not looking for any advice at this time that would recomend a firearm with plastic furniture. With that out of the way on to the questions.

1a: Uberti Top break revolvers in .45 colt are they limited to black powder only loadings?

1b: If not how do I know how strong of a .45 colt loading they can handle since .45 colt comes in such wide varieties?

1c: If Uberti top break revolvers can handle some more potent .45 caliber loadings can I have the cylinder machined to accept moon clips so I can fire .45 acp out of them safely?

1d: If I cannot fire .45 acp safely from a top break can I have a cylinder machined to allow .45 Colt cartridges in a moon clip? I have heard of .357 being used in moon clips before so the question doesn't seem totally ridiculous.

2a: Are there any lever guns that can accept .45 acp with or without modification?

2b: If there is a modification that can be done to a lever gun to accept .45 acp is it a generic modification that I can go to any levergun gunsmith or is it a specific modification that I would have to go to a particular gunsmith for?

2c: If there are no modifications that can be done to a lever gun to let it chamber .45 acp are there any lever guns that can chamber .45 cowboy special without modification?

2d: Are there any lever guns that can chamber .45 cowboy special with modification and if so would I have to go to a specific gunsmith for that modification?

3a: Are there any SA revolvers specifically chambered in .45 acp? I know there are some .45 colt models out there with .45 acp cylinders you can swap between.

3b: If .45 acp SA revolvers are only available via convertable cylinder which models in your opinion are most interesting?

4: Does anyone have any experience with Uberti revolvers that would point you to recommend or not recommend a specific one?

Thank you all for your time, and any knowledge you choose to share. I also appreciate the flexibility in answering any lever gun questions that I have asked in the recolver section of this forum.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

The only thing I can advise you on is the levergun, with the 45 acp loads you would need to stay with flat point bullets. This is so it does not set of ammo in the magazine tube. I am much more familiar with Uberti open tops and can tell you about stuff you would need to know but the models you mention not so much.

 

[CraigC]

They can be converted to use the .45ACP with moon clips and are safe to do so. Far as I know, TK Custom was the first to offer this.

No .357 in any form.

No factory .45ACP leverguns. Not sure on the .45CW cycling through a .45Colt levergun, never tried.

I have at least one example of all the S&W replicas. My favorite is the original Schofield model. It is the most comfortable and the easiest to run fast. The Frontier (New Model) is 2nd. The American's grip is uncomfortable to me. The Russian is comfy but the hammer reach is very long.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

All of the leverguns in .45 ACP I've read about are custom modifications. My understanding is that many levergun designs, particularly the Henry/1866/1873 family, tend to require a specific cartridge OAL to reliably feed from the magazine. I have an article somewhere from American Rifleman about a levergun (Marlin, I think) Ed Harris altered for .45 ACP -- the changes required were non trivial.

I think the Cowboy Special is a better option if you want to modify a lever action for higher capacity. There's some discussion on other forums about this:

https://www.coltforum.com/threads/45-cowboy-special-through-1873-lever-guns-colt-saa.401985/
https://www.1911forum.com/threads/anyone-make-a-45acp-lever-rifle.292532/

I own several revolvers in .45 ACP: a shaved Webley MkVI, two S&W M1917s and a Pietta 1858 Remington with a conversion cylinder.



I shoot reduced power handloads in the Webley and Pietta exclusively -- the ,455 Webley, in particular, was not built to take standard .45 ACP pressure ammo.

As to your question is about whether standard-pressure factory .45 ACP ammo would be advisable in one of Uberti's top-break reproductions, my advice would be to stick with whatever ammo Uberti recommends.

Uberti makes good guns along with the occasional lemon, just like all the other major manufacturers. Both the SA Ubertis I've owned were excellent. I've no experience with their SA S&W repros though.

 

[Coyote3855]

You might visit the SASS Forum with your questions as they are the experts on cowboy loads and firearms modifications for competition. Probably not on hot rodding. The break actions revolvers are inherently somewhat weaker than solid frame guns. Ruger original Vaqueros are the answer if you want maximum performance in .45 Colt.

 

[ontarget]

Any Uberti cartridge revolver should be safe with FACTORY smokeless ammo.
They are all made with modern materials to modern standards.
Also being made over there in Europe, they are proof tested to modern standards.

 

[Oninotaki]

The only thing I can advise you on is the levergun, with the 45 acp loads you would need to stay with flat point bullets. This is so it does not set of ammo in the magazine tube. I am much more familiar with Uberti open tops and can tell you about stuff you would need to know but the models you mention not so much.

Yeah my plan had been to look for semi-wad cutter rounds, or maybe load my own wad cutters. Get those .45 acp rounds as short and flat as possible essentially.

 

[Oninotaki]

They can be converted to use the .45ACP with moon clips and are safe to do so. Far as I know, TK Custom was the first to offer this.

No .357 in any form.

No factory .45ACP leverguns. Not sure on the .45CW cycling through a .45Colt levergun, never tried.

I have at least one example of all the S&W replicas. My favorite is the original Schofield model. It is the most comfortable and the easiest to run fast. The Frontier (New Model) is 2nd. The American's grip is uncomfortable to me. The Russian is comfy but the hammer reach is very long.

Thank you for the TK custom shout out. That answers one of the most interesting of the questions to me. A top break 6 shot .45 acp that can be quickly reloaded with moon clips sounds like a lot of fun.

Also thanks for the advice on how the various models actually feel.

Interesting on the lack of .45 acp lever guns but not surprising.

 

[Oninotaki]

All of the leverguns in .45 ACP I've read about are custom modifications. My understanding is that many levergun designs, particularly the Henry/1866/1873 family, tend to require a specific cartridge OAL to reliably feed from the magazine. I have an article somewhere from American Rifleman about a levergun (Marlin, I think) Ed Harris altered for .45 ACP -- the changes required were non trivial.

I think the Cowboy Special is a better option if you want to modify a lever action for higher capacity. There's some discussion on other forums about this:

https://www.coltforum.com/threads/45-cowboy-special-through-1873-lever-guns-colt-saa.401985/
https://www.1911forum.com/threads/anyone-make-a-45acp-lever-rifle.292532/

I own several revolvers in .45 ACP: a shaved Webley MkVI, two S&W M1917s and a Pietta 1858 Remington with a conversion cylinder.



I shoot reduced power handloads in the Webley and Pietta exclusively -- the ,455 Webley, in particular, was not built to take standard .45 ACP pressure ammo.

As to your question is about whether standard-pressure factory .45 ACP ammo would be advisable in one of Uberti's top-break reproductions, my advice would be to stick with whatever ammo Uberti recommends.

Uberti makes good guns along with the occasional lemon, just like all the other major manufacturers. Both the SA Ubertis I've owned were excellent. I've no experience with their SA S&W repros though.

Thanks for links, and the video. I didn't know about those forums at all, so I will do as much over there as much as I can as well.

That webly is fantastic, although I gotta admit I don't know anything about the .455 that it takes.

It really does seem like the .45 cowboy special would be the cheapest option, as I would only have to modify the rifle for their use, however .45 acp is easy to pick up off the shelf for, and can be moonclipped.

I feel like I am being greedy

 

[Oninotaki]

You might visit the SASS Forum with your questions as they are the experts on cowboy loads and firearms modifications for competition. Probably not on hot rodding. The break actions revolvers are inherently somewhat weaker than solid frame guns. Ruger original Vaqueros are the answer if you want maximum performance in .45 Colt.

Thanks for the SASS recommendation. I didn't know those forums existed either as I am not active in that sport.

Yeah the big challenge here is I want to be using just one. 45 caliber cartridge for both the revolver and rifle. I would like it to be short so I can fit as many in the rifle as possible, but would also like it to moon clippable for fast revolver reloads.

I am not interested in flinging .45 colt as hot as possible. To be honest I would be very happy getting 300-400 ft-lbs at the muzzle out of the revolver and 500-600 out of the rifle and I think .45 acp factory loads would do that for me.

 

[Roverguy]

The Safari 45 Colt N frame speed loader works for the Uberti Schofield. With a couple of speed loaders, no need to faff around with moon clips. Releoading 45 Colt is dead easy - if not already a reloader, even the Lee hand tool kit is viable, especially with the scoop and Trail Boss. Cast lead bullets and about 4.5-5 grs of TB is a fun and decent combo.

 

[Oninotaki]

The Safari 45 Colt N frame speed loader works for the Uberti Schofield. With a couple of speed loaders, no need to faff around with moon clips. Releoading 45 Colt is dead easy - if not already a reloader, even the Lee hand tool kit is viable, especially with the scoop and Trail Boss. Cast lead bullets and about 4.5-5 grs of TB is a fun and decent combo.

Oh Boy, I had no idea they made .45 colt speed loaders. I will look that up and see if there is any chance it would work with .45 cowboy special as well.

If so then I could just do a mod to a .45 colt lever gun to chamber .45 cowboy special and be good to go. Sure I wouldn't get all the brass ejecting in one neat package, but I also wouldn't have to mess around with loading and unloading moon clips either.

This is why I ask questions guys.

 

[AlexanderA]

1a: Uberti Top break revolvers in .45 colt are they limited to black powder only loadings?

I have an Uberti Schofield in .45 LC. It does fine with factory smokeless loads. In fact it's the black powder loads that are the problem, because of fouling. Uberti made the cylinder longer than that of the originals, to accommodate .45 LC cartridges, which are longer than .45 Schofield cartridges. Accordingly, the gap in front of the cylinder, where BP fouling is supposed to accumulate, is much smaller. The cylinder can lock up with BP fouling after just a few rounds.

 

[Roverguy]

Oh Boy, I had no idea they made .45 colt speed loaders. I will look that up and see if there is any chance it would work with .45 cowboy special as well.

If so then I could just do a mod to a .45 colt lever gun to chamber .45 cowboy special and be good to go. Sure I wouldn't get all the brass ejecting in one neat package, but I also wouldn't have to mess around with loading and unloading moon clips either.

This is why I ask questions guys.

The rounds are retained in the speedloader by the rim, so it will take cowboy special.

 

[Oninotaki]

The rounds are retained in the speedloader by the rim, so it will take cowboy special.

It was actually the length of case to depth of cartridge opening on the speed loader that I thought might be an issue. Since .45 colt is so much longer than .45 cowboy special I thought their might be an issue of not enough of the bullet sticking out if the speed loader to make lining it up with the openings in the revolver cylinder a smooth process.

 

[StrawHat]

The 45 Cowboy Special was the brain child of Adirondack Jack. He designed it and contracted Star-Line to produce them. When they were a big hit with the competition crowd, he went the next step and figured out how to get them to feed in a lever action rifle. It required a new carrier to get them from the magazine to the chamber. Jack has since passed on and his business was sold at least once. I am not sure if anyone is still producing the lifters or the brass. Too bad if they are not available.


Kevin

 

[Tallball]

My Ruger Blackhawk has a 45acp cylinder and a 45 colt cylinder. It can supposedly shoot 45 colt that's almost up to 44 magnum standards, but I mostly just shoot 45acp out of it. 45acp and 45 colt feel the same out of it, but I'm not knowledgeable about pressure curves and so forth.

IMHO, 45acp is a good revolver round. I enjoy the two that I have.

 

[Oninotaki]

Thanks for all the input everyone. It looks like if I were to forward with this project I would do the following:

1st: pick up a .45 cowboy special carrier from Bill English at online outpost.

2nd: Install it in a 24" 1873 .45 colt lever action

3rd: Acquire .45 Cowboy Special brass and find/develop loads for wadcutters for the shortest loads possible.

4th: Acquire a Schofield revolver in probably 3.5" barrel for hilarious snubbie fun to go with the super long levergun. Looks like Taylor offers several models.

5th: Use .45 Colt speed loaders to get the quickest reloads out of a top break that I can without having to sort out the whole .45acp in a lever gun issue.

Thanks everyone for helping me sort through this project idea. It's all for fun, and has no practical or even sporting purpose.

 

[Oninotaki]

Just for informational purposes it looks like you can get a modification done to make some .45 colt lever guns chamber .45 acp.

http://www.codyscowboyshop.com/

It's more expensive than the .45 cowboy special carrier, but all the work is done for you.

 

[Onty]

The 45 Cowboy Special was the brain child of Adirondack Jack. He designed it and contracted Star-Line to produce them. When they were a big hit with the competition crowd, he went the next step and figured out how to get them to feed in a lever action rifle. It required a new carrier to get them from the magazine to the chamber. Jack has since passed on and his business was sold at least once. I am not sure if anyone is still producing the lifters or the brass. Too bad if they are not available. Kevin

As for 45 Cowboy Special, it's listed as a standard production item:

#1640 - 45 Cowboy Special Brass (Large Pistol primer)
Cowboy 45 Special, 45 SPL, C45S



https://www.starlinebrass.com/45-cowboy-special

Well, at present moment; Status: Backordered, as brass for number of other calibers.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

1a: Uberti Top break revolvers in .45 colt are they limited to black powder only loadings?

1b: If not how do I know how strong of a .45 colt loading they can handle since .45 colt comes in such wide varieties?

Howdy

All revolvers produced in Italy must pass proof tests which are slightly more stringent than American proof tests.

The Uberti versions of the Top Breaks chambered for 45 Colt will be safe to shoot with all SAAMI Spec 45 Colt ammunition. That is the standard stuff you will find on the shelf of any gun store.

Do not try shooting any of the more powerful 45 Colt ammo marketed by some American manufacturers in an Italian Top Break.

Stick with main stream, SAAMI Spec 45 Colt ammo that has a maximum pressure of 14,000 psi.

 

[mikemac-1]

I have bigger hands and just bought, uberti gunfighter deluxe 45 long colt. I am noticing that the trigger guard is rather small and have to be careful. Question does uberti make a larger trigger guard. My next revolver to buy is top break outlaw ^ frontier 45 long colt item# 348550. Any information would be great. I just joined the forum and first post

 

[Onty]

If I am not mistaken, Taylor's use to sell No. 3 in 44 Special and 45 Colt. Known before as Beretta Laramie:



This is probably the most refined top break revolver, it has also a safety system so all 6 chambers could be loaded.

NOTE: Some are mixing up this revolver and Schofield https://www.invaluable.com/auction-...ld-laramie-38-special-cal-rev-28-c-4d946bfb80 . They are two different revolvers.

Unfortunately, when I checked https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/ , the only top break listed is Schofield.

 

[mikemac-1]

Thank you Onty for the information. I did look at the laramie and worried about the grip. I need a standard grip.? They say I have big hands, I think there just my hands. I am having Sportsman Warehouse looking for my gun.

 

[CraigC]

Taylor's discontinued the Frontier .44Spl, which is a crying shame.



Only Cimarron has the American, my least favorite.



The Schofield is my favorite. It has the best combination of top latch, grip and hammer reach. None of them will run as fast as an SAA and reload speed is overrated.