Uberti model P cylinder pickup

[rambler1961]

After pulling the hammer to the half cock position ,I noticed when leaving my thumb off the hammer, the hammer moves forward slightly causing the cylinder to rotate a few degrees counter clockwise, leaving the cylinder off center a few degrees in the loading gate. The bolt drop is right on, and the trigger enters the full cock position the same time the bolt enters the cylinder lock slot. The cylinder seems to be centered exactly in the barrel when in the full cock position. Not sure what to think.. Thanks in advance.

 

[Old Fuff]

It's doing what it's supposed to - sort of.

The hammer is moving (slightly) forward as the trigger enters the half-cock notch. That's O.K.

But the cylinder movement isn't, and is likely caused by a weak hand spring. If you carefully bend the spring backwards a little bit the cylinder movement should stop.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

Your cylinder is spinning very easy and your hand spring is heavy enough to spin it backwards slightly. You're going to spin the cylinder in the half cock position to load or unload it anyway so I don't see a problem.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Just checked two 2nd Gen Colts and one 1st Gen. Two out of three do as you describe.

As the Old Fuff describes, when the hammer clicks at half cock and you release the hammer, the trigger sear slips under the over hanging lip of the half cock notch, allowing the hammer to move forward slightly. In this photo you can see the overhanging lips on the half cock and 'safety' cock notches.



When the hammer rocks forward slightly, the hand retracts slightly because of the position of its pivot hole on the hammer.

Not to disagree with the Old Fuff, but as the hand retracts slightly, it is pressing against the ratchet teeth on the cylinder, and depending on how free spinning your cylinder is, the cylinder may rotate back a few degrees.

Completely normal, depending on how free spinning your cylinder is.

You may or may not have to manually readjust the cylinder position slightly to line it up perfectly to eject spent brass. I am so used to doing this that I don't even notice I am doing it.

 

[Old Fuff]

Not to disagree with the Old Fuff, but as the hand retracts slightly, it is pressing against the ratchet teeth on the cylinder, and depending on how free spinning your cylinder is, the cylinder may rotate back a few degrees.

Disagreements like this will likely start World War Three....

But on the other hand...

The hand pivots on a pin, but is confined in a slot in the frame, and pushed forward by the hand spring. If you cock the hammer while the cylinder has been removed you will find that usually the hand protrudes further forward then it could if the cylinder was in place. Thus at most times it is pushing against one of the cylinder's ratchet teeth.

But the strength of the pressure largely depends on the strength of the hand spring, and this also is the cause of a free-spinning cylinder - or the lack of same.

If you remove the hand and replace the cylinder they're is no pressure (or "brake") on the cylinder and it will (or should) spin very freely. You will get the same affect if the hand spring is broken or bent forward and you cock the hammer while the muzzle is pointed up. Point the muzzle down and the cylinder will likely turn or try too.

Bending the handspring backwards (and be careful how you do it) or replacing the traditional leaf spring with a Ruger-style coil-spring & plunger will put pressure on the hand and cylinder and make it less likely to back up.

Last but not least, if the hand is correctly fitted the second tooth will be in contact (or almost so) with the ratchet and prevent the cylinder from backing very far backwards.

 

[rambler1961]

This particular Uberti does have a coil hand spring. The set screw that puts pressure on the spring is adjusted flush with the frame. I think i'll trial adjust this screw inward to the frame and see if this makes a difference. If that doesn't change anything, I think Ill just let well enough alone.!

Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

Old Fuff, your description makes no sense to me regarding the OP. How is the second tooth on the hand supposed to keep the cylinder from backing up when it IS the hand itself pulling back down on the cylinder teeth?

When the hammer moves downward into the half cock notch the hand also moves down causing the cylinder to move counter clockwise slightly.

I think all my SAA revolvers do this to some degree.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

This particular Uberti does have a coil hand spring. The set screw that puts pressure on the spring is adjusted flush with the frame. I think i'll trial adjust this screw inward to the frame and see if this makes a difference. If that doesn't change anything, I think Ill just let well enough alone.!

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I would just leave the screw flush, that's probably where it needs to be. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with your revolver. I have one that the spring was too stiff and I took the screw out altogether and let the back strap hold the spring in.

 

[Old Fuff]

Old Fuff, your description makes no sense to me regarding the OP. How is the second tooth on the hand supposed to keep the cylinder from backing up when it IS the hand itself pulling back down on the cylinder teeth?

It is true that if the hammer moves forward contact between the hand's second ledge and the ratchet tooth is opened, but the hand is also pushing forward on the ratchet and acting as a brake. However if the hand spring is weak enough what amounts to as frictional resistance on the cylinder won't be enough to keep the cylinder from free wheeling backwards until the ledge on the hand and ratchet tooth come into contact again.

As an experiment, coat the cylinder bushing (if they're is one) and base pin with heavy/sticky grease, and you may find the back wheeling is substantially reduced or eliminated. This is not a solution but a way to identify what's causing the problem.

If the hand is correctly fitted you rotate the cylinder when loading until you hear/feel a "click" and then turn it the other way until the hand stops it. At this point the chamber should be aligned with the loading port in the frame to the degree that a cartridge can be inserted. Repeat as necessary.

Incidentally, be careful when it comes to advancing the screw on a coil spring & plunger hand spring set-up. If you go too far the hand may become jammed in the frame's slot as the plunger can't back up far enough. A stronger spring is a better solution if it's necessary to increase hand tension.

 

[rambler1961]

took the gun out over the weekend, and noticed ( before loading any cartridges) that in the half cock position, if you apply pressure to the trigger, the cylinder will rotate cc and center itself in the loading gate. letting off the trigger returns the cylinder ccw to just slightly off center of the loading gate.

 

[rambler1961]

took the gun out over the weekend, and noticed ( before loading any cartridges) that in the half cock position, if you apply pressure to the trigger, the cylinder will rotate cc and center itself in the loading gate. letting off the trigger returns the cylinder ccw to just slightly off center of the loading gate.

 

[Old Fuff]

This may sound stupid, and maybe is, but when you "apply pressure" to the trigger are you pushing it forward or backwards, or both?

 

[Jim K]

In an original type Single Action, with the trigger/sear in the half cock (loading) notch, the trigger should not move at all or only a very tiny bit. Could the notch be broken out or the sear (top part of the trigger - see Driftwood's photo) be broken off?

Jim

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I have three Colts in hand right now. Two 2nd Gens and one 1st Gen. With the hammer at half cock, the trigger should not move at all. The tip of the sear, (lower arrow), should nest securely under the overhanging lip of the half cock notch (upper arrow). The hammer spring should keep the hammer firmly forward, and the trigger spring should keep the sear firmly back in the notch. In this condition the trigger is locked in place and cannot move. If the trigger can move, something is wrong.




All this is over thinking though. When I load a Colt or colt replica, with the hammer at half cock, I cradle the gun in my left hand, and rotate the cylinder manually with my thumb. Exactly where the chambers line up at each click is not terribly important because I manually adjust the cylinder for each chamber with my thumb. Been doing it like that for a long time.

By the way, don't try too hard to move the trigger in either half cock or 'safety cock'. Put too much pressure on the trigger and you will break something. Most likely you will shear the sear right off the trigger. The cross sections of the parts are quite fine, and if forced they will break.