Uberti Schofield question(s)

[BobWright]

Pardon my ignorance... but wouldn't "snapping the barrel down vigorously" increase wear on the hinge ?

Also, as a side note, I know the latch wears, and can be replaced; but what else wears on these revolvers ? The hinge ?

The intent here is to open the gun quickly with a snapping motion, not slinging it against the stops. This "throws" the empties (and loaded rounds) clear of the cylinder.

I have no experience with the big S&W top breaks, but on the pocket guns such as Iver Johnson or Harrington & Richardson, the lugs on top of the frame wear down sort of rounded so when fired the latch rides up over them and "unlocks itself." When I was a youngster we bought these guns from junk shops and took them to the service station where they could build up those lugs with weld metal (and at times with a brazing rod) and we could dress them down with a file and have a usable gun again and we could double our money.

Bob Wright

 

[Dudemeister]

Rim diameter for 45 Schofield is .520. Precisely because S&W was afraid the diminutive rims of the old 45 Colts might slip under the extractor. This is one of my original Schofields, so loading it with 45 Colt is not an option. A 45 Colt will not seat in the chambers by almost 1/4". 45 Schofield brass is available from Starline. I won't swear to this, but I suspect modern 45 Schofield brass with its larger rim diameter will chamber in a modern replica Schofield without the rims over lapping. There is around .010 clearance between rims in this Schofield. So anybody who is having extraction problems with 45 Colt in a modern Schofield replica might consider loading it with 45 Schofield ammunition.

View attachment 940212

Based on the Schofield rim diameter specs 0.520" ~ 0.522", it would probably be impossible to seat 2 schofiled cartridges next to each other in my Uberti. I measured the gap between the rims of the .45 Colt cartridges and it's 0.0180" ~0.0165". I then measured the rim diameter of my cartridges, and the Winchester cases are consistently 0.5090", whereas the Starline brass are slightly smaller, 0.5080" ~ 0.5085".

Based on this I'd be lucky if I could get one Colt and one Schofiled side by side.



FWIW, I also looked at my ejector shaft. It's not round, rather it's a hexagon with slightly rounded corners, or a cylinder with 6 flat faces. It doesn't have the ridge and groove you mention. I also looked at my other top breaks, an H&R Hammerless and a Spanish S&W copy, and they all have a hexagonal extractor shaft. The only place I see the round shaft with the groove, and the ridge in the cylinder are my K38 and my M57 Smiths.

I lightened up the photo a little better see the extractor shaft

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

You are absolutely correct. Modern S&W revolvers have a groove running the length of the extractor rod and a square 'key' raised on the ID of the cylinder hole that rides in the groove. I have no idea how they milled a square key inside a hole, perhaps it was broached, but S&W Hand Ejectors had that for many, many years. Just looked at a MIM era Model 617 and it does not have the groove, the shaft has a flat on it. There is a corresponding flat inside the cylinder 'hole' that keys off the flat on the shaft. Again, I don't know how they get a flat inside a hole, perhaps broached, perhaps Wire EDM. Clearly it is less expensive to do it this way than put that tiny square ridge inside the hole the way they used to do it,

Here is the arrangement on an original Schofield. The groove has angled edges. There is a very small, triangular nub on the inside of the cylinder hole that rides in the groove. Again, not sure how they raised the triangular nub inside the hole. I am assuming it runs all the way through the hole. No, I am not going to take the cylinder apart to find out. Clearly Uberti took a small production shortcut making a hexagonal shaft. Not sure how they made a hexagonal hole, perhaps they Wire EDMed it. Nothing wrong with a minor engineering change to make it possible to make an affordable replica.






Regarding Schofield rims overlapping in your cylinder, you might be pleasantly surprised. Starline 45 Schofield rims are running .518 - .519 in diameter. Yes, I measured some.

Let's take the worst case scenario. A rim .519 in diameter is .010 larger than your .509 diameter Winchester 45 Colt rim. That means the .0165 worst case scenario between cases on your cylinder would be reduced to .0065 between rims. Did I get my math correct? Plus, don't forget there is always a tiny amount of slop.

Many years ago I had my favorite gunsmith open up the counterbores on a Remington 1858 45 Colt conversion cylinder slightly. As built the counterbores would not accept a 45 Schofield rim. Before he opened up the counterbores he did the math, and determined there was not enough distance between chambers on this cylinder to allow the Schofield rims to seat next to each other without over lapping. He went ahead and opened up the counterbores anyway. It turns out, there was just enough slop between the OD of the cartridges and the ID of the chambers that the Schofield cases fit in very nicely, despite what the math said. A teeny bit of slop can sometimes go a long way.





Tell you what I'll do. You send me a private message with your name and address, and I will send you 6 pieces of 45 Schofield brass and you can find out for yourself.

Gotta warn you, they won't be virgin brass, they have been fired a bunch of times with Black Powder so they are stained, but they will serve to see if a teeny bit of slop will allow you to chamber 45 Schofield brass.

 

[Jim Watson]

.455 Webley has .530-.535" rim. How did they get that in a SAA?
A couple of Britishers, back when a Free Englishman might own a revolver, got help from the Rolls Royce tool room and found the chambers diverged slightly.

Wonder what S&W did? There were a few .455 No 3 NMs.

 

[Dudemeister]

Regarding Schofield rims overlapping in your cylinder, you might be pleasantly surprised. Starline 45 Schofield rims are running .518 - .519 in diameter. Yes, I measured some.

Let's take the worst case scenario. A rim .519 in diameter is .010 larger than your .509 diameter Winchester 45 Colt rim. That means the .0165 worst case scenario between cases on your cylinder would be reduced to .0065 between rims. Did I get my math correct? Plus, don't forget there is always a tiny amount of slop.

I remember having a couple of Schofield cases once, and them it dawned on me that I had made some dummy rounds to put on belt I have hanging as a display. Pulled it down, and sure enough, there were 3 Schofield dummy rounds in there. Nicely tarnished and with a green layer in the area that rested against the leather. Disgusting patina...



Anyway, you are correct. They fit just fine, I tried putting a piece of printer paper between them and I could not, it just wrinkled the paper when I tried to force it, so it's that close, but they fit.