Uberti Schofield 44-40 Issues

[Foto Joe]

I'd like to hear from any of you that have fired Black Powder Cartridge from a Schofield either in 45 Colt, 45 Schofield or 44-40 and if so, if you've had issues with cylinder fouling.

This thing is driving me a bit nuts. It appears that I'm getting cylinder fouling at the front of the cylinder and binding on the barrel. I'm loading 25gr Swiss with about 20gr Cornmeal filler using a Mav Dutchman 200gr RNFP from Dash Caliber.

I've noted that the advance ratchets on a Schofield are considerably smaller diameter than Colt (or clones) use on the SAA. This provides less leverage to advance the cylinder and when you add fouling it pretty much turns this thing into a single shot or at most a triple shot before you have to help rotate the cylinder.

I love the gun and it's a hell of a kick to shoot but I'm going to have to load smokeless for this thing if I can't figure out a fix and that's just wrong for 44-40 in my mind.

To answer the inevitable question, no I haven't measured the gap between cylinder and barrel but just eyeballing it I can see light and it appears about the thickness of a piece of paper. I will make an attempt to borrow a set of feeler guages tomorrow afternoon. Let's say the gap meets spec for smokeless, about what would your guess be that it should be for what we love to shoot?

 

[junkman_01]

.005-.010 would be about right Joe.

 

[Oyeboten]

I have fairly close Cylinder to Barrel Gaps on my Cap & Ball Revolvers, and, on some of my Metallic Cartridge Revolvers which I shoot Black Powder Cartridges in.


These appear to be from about .003, to, .005, depending on the Revolver.


From the get-go, with Black Powder, I have used home made 'Lube Wafers' which are about .040 thick at most, and, hence, do not displace hardly any Powder.

I can shoot a hundred rounds in a row, or, fifty or sixty rounds, wait a few months with no cleaning ( and no rust, and, this with regular old Steel Revolvers ) , and, fire another fifty or sixty Black Powder rounds, with never a hint of any Fouling or Binding.


If you are interested, I would be glad to explain the procedure for making them.

It may very well put a Happy end to your Revolver's Fouling woes.

 

[mainmech48]

Agree with Oyeboten that using some sort of BP-specific lube, either as a wad or on the slugs, would most likely help make your loads work better for you.

I don't shoot a great many BP/Pyrodex loads, but found that when I took Mike Venturino's advice and switched to using SPG or Lyman BP Gold on my cast bullets for that purpose I could run a significantly greater number of rounds through my revolvers before cylinder rotation started to feel stiff. The fouling stays "softer" and doesn't tend to bind things up nearly as quickly.

Also found that his recommendation to using a drop tube to charge the cases and "Magnum" primers in loading my BP/Pyrodex cartidges seems to yield markedly more consistent accuracy with them. FWIW, virtually all of my BP/Pyrodex loads have been with full volume charges, so I can't say whether these techniques would work as well with your reduced loads.

The barrel/cylinder gaps on the revolvers I've used these in run from 0.006" to 0.009".

Hope this is of some help.

 

[Hoof Hearted]

My experience wth the Uberti Schofield (and many other problematic revolvers) with BP is that a full charge that leaves the cases clean will also virtually eliminate these types of fouling issues.

This is much easier to accomplish with Swiss than some of the more dirty powders and can be accoplished with hard wads. I have had no luck with other types of fillers as you need a "sharp" report to gain this advantage.

If the "reduced load" is the way you want to go then, lots of appropriate lube (be mindful of some petroleum based lubes) can provide a work around and provide some relief. You might also look into the "Big Lube" line of bullet Moulds.

 

[Foto Joe]

First off, the Mav Dutchman 200gr RNFP's are big lube and are lubed with BP lube. I've been using the snot out of these things in a Marlin with excellent results.

Now, what I had not considered was running full loads out of these, I'll give that a try and see what happens. Basically I use reduced loads 'cause I'm cheap and Swiss is not, but I'll give it a try.

The thing has a pretty good kick with 25gr, it's gonna be impressive with up to 40gr I'm sure.

 

[rdstrain49]

Just for kicks I'll measure the cyl. gap on my No. 3 American 44 Russian and get back to you. Might give some insight into what was done when nothing but BP was used.

 

[Hoof Hearted]

My Bad! I overlooked the fact that you were already shooting the Mav Dutchman bullet

I, personally tried all of this numerous times and the "sharp" loads have worked the best for me.

The "Game" has created the need for all of these attempted fixes. I currently have a revolver that shoots a cartridge (of my design) that holds close to 60gr of BP and I shoot this with a 250gr RCBS Cowboy bullet with SPG. I have no problems with the "small" amount of lube and an 8" barrel. This pistol was not built for Cowboy shooting and in normal use does not foul.

 

[rdstrain49]

Cyl. gap on my No. 3 S&W is .010". Not all that much more than "modern" revolvers.

 

[Burt Blade]

These guns are occasionally discussed at Cowboy Action Shooting matches. While rather rare, they do show up from time to time.

The Cowboy consensus is that the modern versions were made for smokeless ammunition. They bind up quickly when firing blackpowder or substitutes.

As a general rule, the tapered/bottleneck rounds like .44-40 and .38-40 are best for blackpowder use. The thin walls readily expand to the chamber, providng a good seal. The taper helps achieve a good seal. The result is minimal blow-by.

 

[Oyeboten]

Hi foto Joe,


I don't think .44 Russian Case will hold 40 Grains of BP, at least, not with a Seated Bullet anyway.


Make sure all your Case's Primer Pocket through-holes are clean, well formed, and about the same size also.


What brand of Primers you been using?

 

[royal barnes]

I sold my Schofields because I could never get more than 1 cylinder full before the binding started. Mine were in .45 Colt and I used every substitute and real BP with pretty much the same results. The repro Schofields do not have the gas ring at the front of the cylinder to help alleviate the fouling. I know some people claim to have fixed the problem but I shoot cowboy matches all over the country and I don't remember seeing anyone shooting Schofields with BP. Caliber .44-40 will probably not make any difference because the bottle neck case only keeps fouling out of the action and not off the cylinder rod and cylinder front. Wish I had better news.

 

[Mr Woody]

I like shooting BP in my 45s but 6 shots from the Schofields and it was already binding. I found the Schofield to be very accurate and easy to shoot but not for BP.

 

[Foto Joe]

I'm finding out that it isn't just the front of the cylinder. The recoil shield is just as big of a culprit, but the cylinder pin on this one doesn't really get gunked up.

The other thing I'm finding is that the locate pin on the ejector/extractor which protrudes through the star, protrudes too far. This causes the cylinder to fail to index when the hand hits that pin, then slides off and over the ratchet, it's irritating as hell. I'm considering sending it back to Uberti to be fixed but the last time I did that they destroyed the gun and told me it couldn't be fixed. (Different gun althogether). I think I'll stop by the gunsmith tomorrow and see what he's got to say about the issue.

I did find today that 40gr 3f loads in this thing do reduce the cylinder binding issue and boy to they go BOOM when the hammer falls.

 

[royal barnes]

In reflection I do remember one cowboy shooting Schofields at End of Trail a couple of years ago. He removed the cylinders after every stage, cleaned the chambers and regreased the cylinder pin. The second and third days he used SAA's.

 

[ironhead7544]

I would try a compression die. Havent tried one yet but have heard good reports on reduced fouling. Also maybee FF.

 

[Foto Joe]

I would try a compression die. Havent tried one yet but have heard good reports on reduced fouling. Also maybee FF.

I have and use compression dies for all my Black Powder cartridge loads, they really do help even when loading reduced loads or Gallery Loads.

Regarding the 2f powder: I haven't tried it as getting Black Powder is problematic for me in the first place, it's mail order or nothin' I'm afraid. I use 3f in ALL pistol loads but do use Swiss simply because it's supposed to be cleaner. Swiss does allow me more weight as it measures out at roughly 15% heavier than Goex. And yes I do load all cartridge loads by weight not volume, simply because first off I'm anal and secondly I can make them "exactly" the same that way, this is of course using real Black Powder NOT a substitute.

I dropped the Schofield off at the GS today. They easily punched the locate pin deeper into the cylinder so it is flush with the extractor star now. By holding my left thumb on the cylinder and cycling the gun I found that the improvement in indexing was 100% better but it still missed about every third time it hit the ratchet by the locate pin. It appears the ratchet is slightly buggered up and they're gonna dress it. Hopefully they will call me tomorrow and say all fixed. We'll see.