yaj ahsoap
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- Jan 29, 2011
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Just purchased a Uberti Schofield in .38sp. cal. The gun shoots way low at 13 yards. Can I file the front sight myself and if so, any suggestions?
uberti "Schofield" revolver
- Thread starter yaj ahsoap
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SundownRider
Member
You can file it yourself, but remember you can never put that metal back. Tape around the barrel so you don't add scratches where you don't want them.
I would suggest experimenting with loads before you break out the files. Your gun might not have liked what you were shooting.
I would suggest experimenting with loads before you break out the files. Your gun might not have liked what you were shooting.
BCRider
Member
I ran into the same thing with my cowboy action Piettas in .357. Part way through filing down the sights and test shooting it occured to me that the height is probably correct for the same gun in .45colt shooting BP loads. Pretty much anything else is going to exit the barrel sooner and therefore experience less muzzle rise during the initial "bullet still in the barrel" recoil cycle. So I'd suggest that you figure out what the most popular load you want to shoot from it will be and work the sights slowly down until you're shooting that load well.
The other option, which I'm at currently, is to work the sights down somewhat where I can easily use some slight "Kentucky elevation" correction until I find out what the gun shoots like with black powder loads compared to my current S&W 10 target loads which I'm also using in the cowboy SA revolvers.
It's not hard to use some slight elevation compensation when things are close but as new my guns were shooting something like a good 6 to 7 inches low at just 12 yards. That was way too much to allow any sort of decent accuracy. Now I've got it to where they shoot about an inch to inch and a half low at 12 yards when I hold the sight correctly. WHen I set the peak of the front blade to sort of meet the intersection of the lines coming up from the sloped sides of the top bar of the frame the hits occur at POA. That's close enough, easily seen and repeatable until I manage to do up some black powder cartridges and try then out.
If all this sounds like I'm creeping up on the changes over time then I got my message across.
I'm also finding that since I choose to shoot my "cowboy" guns one handed in deulist style that the difference in the hold lifts the gun as well. Not to mention I'm still learning the rather unique style of how to properly hold an SAA style single action gun. As I adapt to it and learn to hold just tight enough that the gun can swing up a bit from the recoil to make it easier to cock the hammer I'm finding that my POI is rising. So how you hold and shoot the gun makes a big difference as well.
Perhaps it's because I'm finding that adapting to this style of one handed shooting with these old "plowhandle" guns is a real challenge I'm having a lot of fun in learning and trying stuff.
The other option, which I'm at currently, is to work the sights down somewhat where I can easily use some slight "Kentucky elevation" correction until I find out what the gun shoots like with black powder loads compared to my current S&W 10 target loads which I'm also using in the cowboy SA revolvers.
It's not hard to use some slight elevation compensation when things are close but as new my guns were shooting something like a good 6 to 7 inches low at just 12 yards. That was way too much to allow any sort of decent accuracy. Now I've got it to where they shoot about an inch to inch and a half low at 12 yards when I hold the sight correctly. WHen I set the peak of the front blade to sort of meet the intersection of the lines coming up from the sloped sides of the top bar of the frame the hits occur at POA. That's close enough, easily seen and repeatable until I manage to do up some black powder cartridges and try then out.
If all this sounds like I'm creeping up on the changes over time then I got my message across.
I'm also finding that since I choose to shoot my "cowboy" guns one handed in deulist style that the difference in the hold lifts the gun as well. Not to mention I'm still learning the rather unique style of how to properly hold an SAA style single action gun. As I adapt to it and learn to hold just tight enough that the gun can swing up a bit from the recoil to make it easier to cock the hammer I'm finding that my POI is rising. So how you hold and shoot the gun makes a big difference as well.
Perhaps it's because I'm finding that adapting to this style of one handed shooting with these old "plowhandle" guns is a real challenge I'm having a lot of fun in learning and trying stuff.
Owen
Moderator Emeritus
what bullet weight are you shooting?
HelterSkelter
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- Jan 4, 2011
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i would just learn to shoot with the sights lined up to where you are hitting what you want regardless of whether or not they line up. i have a few revolvers that the front sight has to be higher than the rear for it to hit bullseye.
yaj ahsoap
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- Jan 29, 2011
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156 grain.
SC_Slowhand
Member
A change in ammo and some practice
I'm a big fan of Single Action Shooting.
A Uberti Schofield in .38 Special has been on my list of things to get for quite a while now. I have several original breaktops S&W and an Iver Johnson that require black powder cartridges. Which means they have not been to a range lately nor probably won't. Same thing with an 1877 Colt Thunderer, too hard to find parts and just too old. (My Opinion) On anything made prior to 1899, I shoot replicas.
I have a Uberti Replica of an 1871 Richards-Mason Conversion of an 1851 Colt Navy that is chambered for .38 Cal specials ammunition. I use it with Remington, UMC, .38 Special 130 Grain, MC L38S11. Comes out at muzzle velocity 790 fps, with a muzzle energy of 173 ft lbs. Smokeless of course. So you might change the ammunition and see if it gets any better.
Shooting a SA Revolver is a different ball game than modern DA's of course. It takes some adjustment in the grip and familiarization with the required handling. Sighting depends of course on the individual weapon. I've never cut down a sight. I use Kentucky Windage for close range shooting, these things are not nail drivers.
Loading gates ushered in the break top era for revolvers such as the Schofields, which of course led to the swing out cylinder. All great stuff.
I'm a big fan of Single Action Shooting.
A Uberti Schofield in .38 Special has been on my list of things to get for quite a while now. I have several original breaktops S&W and an Iver Johnson that require black powder cartridges. Which means they have not been to a range lately nor probably won't. Same thing with an 1877 Colt Thunderer, too hard to find parts and just too old. (My Opinion) On anything made prior to 1899, I shoot replicas.
I have a Uberti Replica of an 1871 Richards-Mason Conversion of an 1851 Colt Navy that is chambered for .38 Cal specials ammunition. I use it with Remington, UMC, .38 Special 130 Grain, MC L38S11. Comes out at muzzle velocity 790 fps, with a muzzle energy of 173 ft lbs. Smokeless of course. So you might change the ammunition and see if it gets any better.
Shooting a SA Revolver is a different ball game than modern DA's of course. It takes some adjustment in the grip and familiarization with the required handling. Sighting depends of course on the individual weapon. I've never cut down a sight. I use Kentucky Windage for close range shooting, these things are not nail drivers.
Loading gates ushered in the break top era for revolvers such as the Schofields, which of course led to the swing out cylinder. All great stuff.
yaj ahsoap
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- Joined
- Jan 29, 2011
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Thanks for your advice SC Slowhand. Here is some more info. I fired the gun from a rest with a sandbag at 13 yards and fired 30 rounds. My grouping was very tight but at least 10 inches below my target. I doubt that even a change of ammo could seriously improve the point of impact on this gun. this is why I'm seriously considering filing down the sight. I don't feel that I have much of an alternative.
Yaj
Yaj
SharpsDressedMan
member
Be careful. A gun sighted at 25 or 50 yards will always shoot low at 10-15 yards. The sights are above the barrel and the bullet has to rise upwards until it crosses path with the sights, as sighted in, etc. It crosses the line of sight again when the bullet drops during its arc of trajectory.
J-Bar
Member
What are you going to use the gun for?
If you are a cowboy action competitor, file it so it is just hitting an inch or so below point of aim. In a match you will naturally hold the front sight a tad high so you will be right on.
If you are going to hunt small game, you should try for the most precisely refined sight picture possible.
I have filed sights and turned barrels, no regrets. You can always pay someone to correct a mistake, if you make one!
If you are a cowboy action competitor, file it so it is just hitting an inch or so below point of aim. In a match you will naturally hold the front sight a tad high so you will be right on.
If you are going to hunt small game, you should try for the most precisely refined sight picture possible.
I have filed sights and turned barrels, no regrets. You can always pay someone to correct a mistake, if you make one!
SC_Slowhand
Member
Yaj
Have at it partner. Too bad they didn't come with adjustable sights.
Slowhand
Have at it partner. Too bad they didn't come with adjustable sights.
Slowhand
GP100man
Member
Dpris hit on what I was going to add , I strongly suggest shooting the revolver as you would normally before making any adjustments .
When I bench mine to check zero they always hit low from the rest versus when I rest my forearms !!
When I bench mine to check zero they always hit low from the rest versus when I rest my forearms !!
BCRider
Member
Adding to the hand held vs bags I'll mention that when I shoot the gun two handed it shoots lower than when I shoot it one handed like I do in my Cowboy Action matches. So yeah, how you hold the gun makes a huge difference to the vertical point of aim vs impact. But clearly not 8 to 10 inches worth. Same with being sighted for longer range distances and hitting lower as a result. The tall sights on your Schofield are almost certainly because it's a faithful copy of the old guns that shot low velocity rounds propelled by slower burning black powder. Since you're going to shoot this gun with a fairly narrow selection of ammo it just makes sense to adjust the sights to suit the ammo and distance that you'll typically shoot it.
And while I agree with the others that talk about it being sighted for 25'ish yards I also feel that they are a faithful copy of the old slow and softer burning black powder .44 and .45 caliber original cartridge guns. On those the slower bullet acceleration would have had the bullet still in the barrel until later in the recoil cycle. Hence the tall front sight. So tuning the front sight to suit the cartridges you're shooting now is clearly a valid thing to do. Just be sure to maintain or at least restore the original shape once it's down to the right height.
I would also suggest that you set it up to hit a touch low as some have said. Perhaps 1.5 to 2 inches at your most commonly shot distance. That way it'll be "close enough" and if you ever get the urge to more faithfully replicate the old days by loading and shooting black powder, Pyrodex or 777 rounds the sights will not be too short.
If you ever do try these powders then I'd suggest Pyrodex for occasional smoke shows. The Pyrodex cloud is a bit more brown than the fluffy white of true black powder. But the fouling from Pyrodex is compatible with the regular lube used on cast bullets where that same lube will turn to a very tarry like mess if shot with black powder. If you want to load black powder cartridges you need to boil out the modern petroleum based lube and replace it with a mix of true beeswax and baking shortening to avoid this nasty cleanup issue.
And while I agree with the others that talk about it being sighted for 25'ish yards I also feel that they are a faithful copy of the old slow and softer burning black powder .44 and .45 caliber original cartridge guns. On those the slower bullet acceleration would have had the bullet still in the barrel until later in the recoil cycle. Hence the tall front sight. So tuning the front sight to suit the cartridges you're shooting now is clearly a valid thing to do. Just be sure to maintain or at least restore the original shape once it's down to the right height.
I would also suggest that you set it up to hit a touch low as some have said. Perhaps 1.5 to 2 inches at your most commonly shot distance. That way it'll be "close enough" and if you ever get the urge to more faithfully replicate the old days by loading and shooting black powder, Pyrodex or 777 rounds the sights will not be too short.
If you ever do try these powders then I'd suggest Pyrodex for occasional smoke shows. The Pyrodex cloud is a bit more brown than the fluffy white of true black powder. But the fouling from Pyrodex is compatible with the regular lube used on cast bullets where that same lube will turn to a very tarry like mess if shot with black powder. If you want to load black powder cartridges you need to boil out the modern petroleum based lube and replace it with a mix of true beeswax and baking shortening to avoid this nasty cleanup issue.
451 Detonics
Member
Amount of Error in inches ( In this case 10 inches) multiplied by the Sight Radius in inches (In this case 9 inches) divided by the Distance to the Target in inches (In this case 30 x 36 = 1080inches).
So we have 10x9 = 90 and we divide this by 1080 and we get .083. So taking about 8 thousandths off should get you close.
I figured this assuming a 7 inch barrel btw...if it is shorter you need to recalculate. As you can see it is a very small amount to remove, less than a tenth of an inch so go very slow and check it often.
So we have 10x9 = 90 and we divide this by 1080 and we get .083. So taking about 8 thousandths off should get you close.
I figured this assuming a 7 inch barrel btw...if it is shorter you need to recalculate. As you can see it is a very small amount to remove, less than a tenth of an inch so go very slow and check it often.
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