(UK) 2 year sentence for ammo, parts!
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Sure it's their business to conduct their affairs as they wish. By the same token it's our business to take note of what has happened elsewhere and determine whether or not it is advisable or ill conceived to pursue a similar course of action.
DaveP (UK)
Member
When I was a kid the term definitely implied something home made.
I had a look here, and thought it quite interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dum-dum
Cosmoline: You're right to be comcerned. We'd probably have to nationalise you!
I had a look here, and thought it quite interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dum-dum
Cosmoline: You're right to be comcerned. We'd probably have to nationalise you!
Exactly!
Wow I would say your country is in the firearms mess its in because of inherent distrust for your fellow countrymen. Your words certainly seem to show that. He had 2000 hollowpoints and you're calling him, sad, a loser, strange, and a mass murderer in the making? I have well over 2000 hollow points sitting around my place. I have no plans to shoot anything but paper. Just because the rounds may be illegal doesn't mean he is a bad man or has a nefarious purpose intended. While I wouldn't condone his breaking of the law I would say its the law that is bad and not the man. You're condemning a man and speculating on his character based on a news story that with the words "a gun nut?" With pro-gun friends like that, who needs anti-gun enemies.
Fosbery
Member
I disagree. Unjust laws should be ignored. If there was a law requiring you to kill your first born child, would you deserve to 'pay the price' when you refused?
Waywatcher
Member
I would love to see someone do 20 reloads in a minute.
I realize the AK-47 has a cyclic rate of 600rpm, but that is entirely different than what they said.
The question then becomes: who determines the law is unjust?
Free Men not Subjects that’s who!
Freedom is a mind set. We Americans won it long ago, paid for in blood.
We also have tried to help others in the last century; in fact twice we bailed out subject’s asses. It is too bad the subjects have never learned as too many of our good men died for them.
dcoop
Member
I couldn't have said it better myself. God bless America
Summary of UK law regarding ammunition:
The possession of live ammunition is regulated.
A Firearms Certificate specifies what type(s) of ammunition (and how much) you can buy or own. (For example, if it permitted you to own a .22 rifle, it would also permit you to own x rounds of .22LR).
Although live ammunition requires a licence, ammunition components do not. So if you didn't have an FAC, you could still buy bullets, cases, primers, and cases. It would only become illegal if you then assembled them.
Expanding ammunition is treated differently though. Specifically, expanding bullets are classed as "ammunition", so you cannot buy or possess the bullets without a licence to do so. (Yes, a piece of lead is treated as a piece of lead, but a piece of lead with a hole in one end requires a licence to own).
Furthermore, you need a sufficiently "good reason" be licensed to own expanding ammo. The only "good reason" I know of is hunting (expanding ammo is compulsory when shooting deer, and recommended for other animals).
It is rather odd that he didn’t realise his bullets were illegal. I'm sure the easiest way to get bullets legally would just be to go to a gun shop and buy them, rather than going to the trouble of ordering them from America. So if he tried that, he would have been told that he couldn't get the expanding bullets without a licence.
On the other hand, if he is happy to admit to enjoy collecting other illegal items, I don't suppose he has any reason to lie about the bullets.
The possession of live ammunition is regulated.
A Firearms Certificate specifies what type(s) of ammunition (and how much) you can buy or own. (For example, if it permitted you to own a .22 rifle, it would also permit you to own x rounds of .22LR).
Although live ammunition requires a licence, ammunition components do not. So if you didn't have an FAC, you could still buy bullets, cases, primers, and cases. It would only become illegal if you then assembled them.
Expanding ammunition is treated differently though. Specifically, expanding bullets are classed as "ammunition", so you cannot buy or possess the bullets without a licence to do so. (Yes, a piece of lead is treated as a piece of lead, but a piece of lead with a hole in one end requires a licence to own).
Furthermore, you need a sufficiently "good reason" be licensed to own expanding ammo. The only "good reason" I know of is hunting (expanding ammo is compulsory when shooting deer, and recommended for other animals).
It is rather odd that he didn’t realise his bullets were illegal. I'm sure the easiest way to get bullets legally would just be to go to a gun shop and buy them, rather than going to the trouble of ordering them from America. So if he tried that, he would have been told that he couldn't get the expanding bullets without a licence.
On the other hand, if he is happy to admit to enjoy collecting other illegal items, I don't suppose he has any reason to lie about the bullets.
sterling180
Member
To be honest with all of you,this guy did two things wrong:he ordered parts for an illegal weapon,from a dodgy unlicensed dealer,who probably sold weapons to drug gangs and organized "mafia-type" criminal gangs.Then he ordered hollow-points,from the USA,which is not permitted by anyone,except for wholesalers and gun dealers,who possess section 5 permits and all of the importation paperwork.
If he just stuck to the ammo,he might of got away with it,possibly scott free-instead of which,he bought parts for a fully-functioning assault rifle,from a dodgy illegal dealer,who possibly tipped-off the cops,whilst under pressure,about this guys purchase.They could have confiscated the dealers pc and retrieved files,stating the names and addresses of clients,that had purchased,those illegal gunsThat force probably contacted his local force and the they gathered their armed-response team together,to break into his property and arrest him,for possession of an illegal weapon.
He was probably one of many suspects,on the cops wanted list and was arrested,for possessing that AK47,or the ammo,or for both.
The police probably monitor gun and weapon websites,to stop UK citizens from purchasing stuff illegally from Europe and the USA.This is why I don't want to do this and take the consequences,that go with it.That is how this bloke,who was arrested and sentenced accordingly,might have been caught out-by the cops,who could have been spying on him-from Scotland Yard,NCS or NCIS.
Hollow-points were banned,because Thomas Hamilton used them in his pistols,to kill the kids,in Dunblane Primary School and consequently they were banned,because they were considered unnecessary for target-shooting,because they were designed to expand on impact and were only good for and designed for,killing a person.But they could be used for hunting too,but that would be a no-no.
Micheal Ryan used armor-peircing rounds in his AK47,almost a decade earlier and consequently they were banned,because this round did some serious damage to police vehicles,firetrucks and the police helicopter,because they penetrated those vehicles and seriously injured and killed people.
The cops felt that assault-weapons were a threat to society and to them,because it supposidly jepordised,their safety.They also felt that way about all full-bore slrs-too.
If he just stuck to the ammo,he might of got away with it,possibly scott free-instead of which,he bought parts for a fully-functioning assault rifle,from a dodgy illegal dealer,who possibly tipped-off the cops,whilst under pressure,about this guys purchase.They could have confiscated the dealers pc and retrieved files,stating the names and addresses of clients,that had purchased,those illegal gunsThat force probably contacted his local force and the they gathered their armed-response team together,to break into his property and arrest him,for possession of an illegal weapon.
He was probably one of many suspects,on the cops wanted list and was arrested,for possessing that AK47,or the ammo,or for both.
The police probably monitor gun and weapon websites,to stop UK citizens from purchasing stuff illegally from Europe and the USA.This is why I don't want to do this and take the consequences,that go with it.That is how this bloke,who was arrested and sentenced accordingly,might have been caught out-by the cops,who could have been spying on him-from Scotland Yard,NCS or NCIS.
Hollow-points were banned,because Thomas Hamilton used them in his pistols,to kill the kids,in Dunblane Primary School and consequently they were banned,because they were considered unnecessary for target-shooting,because they were designed to expand on impact and were only good for and designed for,killing a person.But they could be used for hunting too,but that would be a no-no.
Micheal Ryan used armor-peircing rounds in his AK47,almost a decade earlier and consequently they were banned,because this round did some serious damage to police vehicles,firetrucks and the police helicopter,because they penetrated those vehicles and seriously injured and killed people.
The cops felt that assault-weapons were a threat to society and to them,because it supposidly jepordised,their safety.They also felt that way about all full-bore slrs-too.
Fosbery
Member
Those are the reasons Sterling, but are they right?
It is quite likely he got the AK parts off a 'dodgy gangster' character, but it's also possible he got them from a mild mannered, otherwise upstanding citizen. Besides, I wouldn't throw someone in jail just for dealing with someone who happens to be otherwise criminally involved - I'm not about to carry out a background check on the cashier at Tescos.
It is quite likely he got the AK parts off a 'dodgy gangster' character, but it's also possible he got them from a mild mannered, otherwise upstanding citizen. Besides, I wouldn't throw someone in jail just for dealing with someone who happens to be otherwise criminally involved - I'm not about to carry out a background check on the cashier at Tescos.
Freedom has nothing to do with my question. What is tantamount to your statement, is that you have no laws in the US that you regard as unjust. Right?
A law doesn't just magically appear on the books these days, due to the efforts of one man alone. There is usually support for that law. Those supporters will deem that law just. So now you have two opinions of that law, yes? Some say it is just and some say it is unjust. What do you do when the majority of your fellow citizens support that law?
SoCalShooter
Member
BLOW APART? Really? Wow! Thank you well informed news people for edumucating me.
Boston Tea Party
Historically speaking, the Boston Tea Party fits the bill. Many actions of the civil rights movement. Willful violation of the law, exceeding the speed limit is a (poor) example (not recommended by me). Political activism and propaganda/marketing/education are common tools.
Historically speaking, the Boston Tea Party fits the bill. Many actions of the civil rights movement. Willful violation of the law, exceeding the speed limit is a (poor) example (not recommended by me). Political activism and propaganda/marketing/education are common tools.
sterling180
Member
No,I wouldn't throw him in jail,under the circumstances,but as far as the law is concerned,there is one rule and one rule only and if you get caught,then its tough luck and you go down-anyway.I think that the only crime he committed,was ignorance and to some degree,stupidity,but not enough to warrant a fairly lengthy stay at one of Her Majesty's Prisons.
This thread shows the different mindset of subjects and their ability to swallow propaganda from their protectors.
There sure are and as a free man I ignore them. As will fellow citizens do. Ever hear of jury nullification?
Turn in all your knives too they be dangerous. When being robed or home invaded drop your pants and drop to your knees and offer yourself to the perpetrators they will only hurt you when you resist.
:banghead: :banghead:
IMHO the UK is lost they have been assimilated. Every day and thank God and Jesus that I was born free in the USA
I hope your servicemen get to immigrate to the USA as they deserve better than what is left at home.
There sure are and as a free man I ignore them. As will fellow citizens do. Ever hear of jury nullification?
Turn in all your knives too they be dangerous. When being robed or home invaded drop your pants and drop to your knees and offer yourself to the perpetrators they will only hurt you when you resist.
:banghead: :banghead: IMHO the UK is lost they have been assimilated. Every day and thank God and Jesus that I was born free in the USA
I hope your servicemen get to immigrate to the USA as they deserve better than what is left at home.
glockamolee
Member
I noted the thoughts of our members from the U.K.
You guys lost your privileges, not your rights. You never had rights due to your status as subjects of the Crown; tell me that you have a Parliament? OK, but you are still treated as Subjects (just like Americans are getting treated also nowadays).Englishmen of earlier centuries had better "legal" access to weapons ownership/self defense than that of post WW1 Britain. If I'm mistaken, feel free to chime in.
Furthermore, once Eastern Europe and the Middle Eastern migrants take over your neighborhoods, and disrespect your culture, you have no defensive recourse as you gave it away to Scotland Yard to be torched. (Owners of SLR's who enjoy growing their gardens over them are exempt from my previous statement.)
If you recall your early WW2 History, you will note that your government asked "American Sportsmen" to send arms over to help the Home Guard resist the Nazis if they invaded (this was the result of not having enough/proper type weapons due to a 1920's or 30's gun law). Well, those weapons were never returned to the Americans who sent them. The "Crown" saw fit to destroy them post WW2.
Your government and society certainly isn't mine. I'll visit as a very law abiding (hey, I can come home after a few weeks) tourist, I'll enjoy your Historical landmarks and countryside, but I will not live in a society where I have to jump through hoops and "have a nice attitude" so that "maybe the rest of our guns won't be banned."
NO THANKS.
Some of your Police Officers/Constables came to my country to learn to shoot. They were enjoying dinner at the table next to me with their American Law Enforcement hosts. During this meal they had the gall to say that we should have their (Englands) gun laws. The party soon left after I calmly, but firmly disagreed. Thats the arrogant mindset that rules your country and you as subjects.
Good luck keeping the implements (whats left of them) of your hobby, I'm not holding my breath.
If I sounded harsh, I meant to be. I do have sympathy for those who tried to fight the gun confiscation.
You guys lost your privileges, not your rights. You never had rights due to your status as subjects of the Crown; tell me that you have a Parliament? OK, but you are still treated as Subjects (just like Americans are getting treated also nowadays).Englishmen of earlier centuries had better "legal" access to weapons ownership/self defense than that of post WW1 Britain. If I'm mistaken, feel free to chime in.
Furthermore, once Eastern Europe and the Middle Eastern migrants take over your neighborhoods, and disrespect your culture, you have no defensive recourse as you gave it away to Scotland Yard to be torched. (Owners of SLR's who enjoy growing their gardens over them are exempt from my previous statement.)
If you recall your early WW2 History, you will note that your government asked "American Sportsmen" to send arms over to help the Home Guard resist the Nazis if they invaded (this was the result of not having enough/proper type weapons due to a 1920's or 30's gun law). Well, those weapons were never returned to the Americans who sent them. The "Crown" saw fit to destroy them post WW2.
Your government and society certainly isn't mine. I'll visit as a very law abiding (hey, I can come home after a few weeks) tourist, I'll enjoy your Historical landmarks and countryside, but I will not live in a society where I have to jump through hoops and "have a nice attitude" so that "maybe the rest of our guns won't be banned."
NO THANKS.
Some of your Police Officers/Constables came to my country to learn to shoot. They were enjoying dinner at the table next to me with their American Law Enforcement hosts. During this meal they had the gall to say that we should have their (Englands) gun laws. The party soon left after I calmly, but firmly disagreed. Thats the arrogant mindset that rules your country and you as subjects.
Good luck keeping the implements (whats left of them) of your hobby, I'm not holding my breath.
If I sounded harsh, I meant to be. I do have sympathy for those who tried to fight the gun confiscation.
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Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Regardless of country, a member here is a member. No member is to be insulted or attacked.
Moderators are worse than the Homeland Security types for keeping lists.
Enuf.
Moderators are worse than the Homeland Security types for keeping lists.
Enuf.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Reopened by request.
Thanks, Art.
Fosbery
Member
(English) Bill of Rights says they're rights. We're just having them infringed upon.
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