Gunnerpalace
Member
Dude...It's 425.00 there is not a chance at all I would buy It at that price, not even if it was 125.00, that's a rip-off, cool, but a rip-off.
ultimate urban defence weapon
- Thread starter memphisjim
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Dude...It's 425.00 there is not a chance at all I would buy It at that price, not even if it was 125.00, that's a rip-off, cool, but a rip-off.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
JImbothefiveth
Member
How is sniping at people not murder? From what you said they shot ay anyone who was too close, even if they were not threataning.
Thanks RC, that was news to me. NRA and other sources reported people shot at close range with pistol and rifle but that was the first I have seen about snipers. It is amazing how some people tend to react in a break down of society.
Mike U.
Member
Thanks, rcmodel.
Rshooter expresses my thoughts well in post #29.
Rshooter expresses my thoughts well in post #29.
Titan6
member
That is not really "sniper" fire. Sounds more like a mental defect with sudden access to a gun.
A 30 round Saiga magazine? They can keep it.
A 30 round Saiga magazine? They can keep it.
Big Daddy Grim
Member
I like my MD arms but it kinda messes me up now and then
noskilz
Member
The article has no reference to bolt action rifles or rooftops, just gunfire while they were trying to evacuate Charity Hospital. I'd suggest that the following from the article is probably the most relevant:
"Widespread looting and random gunfire have been reported across New Orleans. Police told CNN that groups of armed men roamed the streets overnight."
I suspect if there really was a sniper with a deer rifle taking aim at Charity Hospital workers, there would have been a few hits, rather than just gunfire. Certainly it was a sad time for our society, hopefully not to happen again.
I got to try out a saiga 12 with an EMPTY 20 round mag, And I would say it's far too heavy. Would be slower than a mag change, unless you dumped all twenty at one target.
I will stick with my ten rounders. Thinner, lighter, easier to carry. And you can mix and match ammo.
I will stick with my ten rounders. Thinner, lighter, easier to carry. And you can mix and match ammo.
Mike U.
Member
Yeah, and it's hard to argue with 10 rounds of 12 ga. buck or slugs delivered fast as you can pull the trigger. YIKES!!!
chuckusaret
member
The saiga-12 is the biggest POS that I have ever owned. The drum will make it even more unrelieable, not to mention the added drum dead weight to the already 9 pound gun.
memphisjim
Member
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since when does a saiga 12 weigh 9 pounds?
Geezer59
Member
If you must have a drum for your Saiga 12, the MD Arms unit is a far better (only!) choice.
kcmarine
Member
Just wondering... how many of us plan to hunker down in a hurricane like Katrina? I'm not saying it's a stupid thing to do, I'm just saying that it'd make more sense to get your belongings, pack up, and drive out of town. Keep a pistol with you on the way out.
Never a 15- but I've done it with a 34.
My objection isn't the weight, but a damn drum. Drums have long enjoyed the reputation of being heavy, bulky, and unreliable. They have earned this reputation.
The "ultimate" urban defense weapon...is a sound mind, good tools, and close friends. But a reliable single-shot beats hell out of an unwieldy, failure-prone piece of junk. I'd take a H&R Topper over the Saiga (if forced to use the drum) any day, and a good sturdy bolt-action rifle over either.
John
chuckusaret
member
Sorry, my guess was a pound off. Empty Weight: 3.6kg (7.94lbs)
I had 12 round magazines for my Saiga but I was never able empty the magazine before it failed to fire for some reason or another. I replaced my Saiga with a Mossberg 500 Persuader that has never failed to fire with standard ammo. I had a problem with the mini shotgun shells in my pump and semi auto. Neither would chamber a shell.
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Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Right, John.
The Ultimate weapon is us.....
The Ultimate weapon is us.....
Apple a Day
Member
... armed with a 12 gage tandem loaded with Dragon's Breath,a bean bag round, birdshot, 00 buckshot, 000buckshot, slugs, flechettes, then more birdshot to "fill in the pattern". That would encompass the entire continuum of force which would be the absolute <angels singing> ULTIMATE </angels singing> in Katrina Weapons. With a 30 round mag you could run through the entire sequence at least three times which is good because velociraptors hunt in packs. Add the quad rail, a LASER, 5000Lumen spotlight, SONAR rangefinder, bipod, and a bayonette and you're ready for anything, baby! 
That and a pack of Oreos.
All kidding aside, I do live in a hurricane prone area. A reliable pump gun and a handgun for backup is what I have ready now that hurricane season is looming.
That and a pack of Oreos.
All kidding aside, I do live in a hurricane prone area. A reliable pump gun and a handgun for backup is what I have ready now that hurricane season is looming.
Sheezy
Member
Well in that case all we need are water guns with grape juice in them.
Mike U.
Member
huh???
A buddy of mine has one of the drums and it doesn't fit properly. An expensive paperweight.
Now, having handled a USAS 12 in full auto and played with a Saiga 12 for a couple of days my personal unprofessional unsubstantiated opinion as someone who has actually fired them instead of just read about them or fondled them in a shop is that they're too heavy/cumbersome to lug around with the ammo required to feed them as anything short of a squad support weapon. Almost any quality pump or semi shotgun will be handier and more useful in the role that we would expect to use a shotgun defensively in.
BTW, there is no "ultimate" anything.
What works for individual A in situation B at location C may not for Z in Y at X. Tools have their applications and limitations and home/self defense is too unstable an environment for any one tool to be all that is needed. It's the tool user that is flexible and adaptable and skilled enough to deal with the dynamic defensive environment.
Let's try to get over the silliness of the "ultimate" tool as soon as possible and focus on developing skills and practicing them so you don't end up like a dear in the headlights when the time comes.
Now, having handled a USAS 12 in full auto and played with a Saiga 12 for a couple of days my personal unprofessional unsubstantiated opinion as someone who has actually fired them instead of just read about them or fondled them in a shop is that they're too heavy/cumbersome to lug around with the ammo required to feed them as anything short of a squad support weapon. Almost any quality pump or semi shotgun will be handier and more useful in the role that we would expect to use a shotgun defensively in.
BTW, there is no "ultimate" anything.
What works for individual A in situation B at location C may not for Z in Y at X. Tools have their applications and limitations and home/self defense is too unstable an environment for any one tool to be all that is needed. It's the tool user that is flexible and adaptable and skilled enough to deal with the dynamic defensive environment.
Let's try to get over the silliness of the "ultimate" tool as soon as possible and focus on developing skills and practicing them so you don't end up like a dear in the headlights when the time comes.
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Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
Another attempt to find a hardware solution to a software problem...
lpl (learn to load a shotgun on the fly and you don't have to try and carry all the ammo in the world in the magazine)
lpl (learn to load a shotgun on the fly and you don't have to try and carry all the ammo in the world in the magazine)
Al Thompson
Moderator Emeritus
Well darn. For my "Ultimate" I'm leaning towards the old but effective "dog poop on a stick".
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