Unbelieveablly screwed up stories of: was it murder or self defense.

[Desertdog]

Here is a good illustration of why we have trouble in believing in the cops or the press, and I an starting to have extreme trouble with both of them.
Pay attention to where the body was located. Also why did it take sooo long to figure out what happened?

Story #1 -

High School Football Star Shot To Death
Police Say They Have No Suspects
http://www.newsnet5.com/news/3012677/detail.html

POSTED: 1:23 pm EDT April 16, 2004

CLEVELAND -- A player on Benedictine High School's state championship football team was found dead on a city street, police said.

Lorenzo Hunter, 16, died from wounds to his chest, left arm and hip, Cuyahoga County Coroner Elizabeth Balraj said. He was about two miles from home when he was shot about 2 a.m. Friday.

Police have not made an arrest and have no suspects.

Hunter, a sophomore, played in Benedictine's 12-0 victory over Kenton for the Division III state crown on Nov. 28 at Fawcett Stadium in Canton.

Coach Art Bortnick said everyone affiliated with the parochial boys school and its football program is devastated.

"A lot of us can't comprehend what happened," Bortnick said. "Lorenzo was a quiet but well-rounded kid with good grades. He'd go out of his way to say hello to you, you could establish a rapport with him, and I never saw a negative side of him."

Hunter was a 6-foot-4, 185-pound wide receiver and safety.

"Lorenzo could run like a deer. He was going to be a major force for our football team the next two years. He had such a promising future," Bortnick said.

Hunter's family gathered Friday a few blocks from the school, in the house where he had lived. Neighbors started a memorial of balloons, flowers and teddy bears in front of the house.

Story #2 -

Arrest Made In Shooting Death Of Local Teen
Man Not Charged Yet

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/3027896/detail.html

POSTED: 3:06 pm EDT April 21, 2004
UPDATED: 3:20 pm EDT April 21, 2004

CLEVELAND -- Police say they've made an arrest in the shooting death of a local teen, NewsChannel5 reported.

The 20-year-old man is being held in connection with the murder of Lorenzo Hunter, but has not been charged yet.

Hunter, a 16-year-old Benedictine High School student, was shot outside his Cleveland home last Friday.

Hunter was on the parochial school's state-championship-winning football team, and the school and community is devastated by his violent death.

Story #3 -

Police: Football Player Used Phony Gun During Robbery
20-Year-Old Charged With Aggravated Murder

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/3030424/detail.html

POSTED: 9:06 am EDT April 22, 2004

CLEVELAND -- City prosecutors have charged a 20-year-old man with aggravated murder in the shooting death of a high school football player.

Rodney Roberts was charged Wednesday. He is accused of shooting 16-year-old Lorenzo Hunter in the chest, arm and hip about 2 a.m. last Friday.

Police said a witness told them that Hunter was trying to rob Roberts with a plastic gun. Roberts then pulled out a real one, according to police.

Hunter was a 6-foot-4, 185-pound sophomore wide receiver and safety for Benedictine High School, which won the Division III state title in November.

A defense lawyer said although he hasn't seen the evidence, Roberts might be able to claim self-defense.

"There are certainly the basics for it," said David King, president of the Cuyahoga Criminal Defense Lawyers Association. "He had to believe he was being threatened with a real gun."

Dee Primm, who owns a store with her husband near where the shooting happened, knew Roberts and Hunter. She said both were respectful young men.

"They're both good boys," she said. "It's just a bad situation."

 

[Standing Wolf]

"They're both good boys," she said. "It's just a bad situation."

Wrong. At least one of those "good boys" was a criminal.

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

Well, now I'm confused.

 

[Cactus]

I'm with 7.62. I'm also confused.

You ask why did it take "sooo long to figure out what happened?", yet the police made an arrest within 5 days! That's pretty quick.

Also why are you upset with the police? The city prosecutor I can understand, but why the cops?

Please elaborate!

 

[tcsd1236]

Five days is not that long. How long do you think they should have taken? Murder cases don't get solved in 60 minutes like CSI, you know. We have a murder case here thats a year old that we are finally going to be making an arrest on soon.It takes time to interview, process information and evidence, etc.

 

[artherd]

Er, other than being a pretty clear SD case, why the confusion?

 

[critter]

SO long? My grandfather was murdered in 1954. We are still waiting!

 

[greyhound]

Lorenzo was a quiet but well-rounded kid with good grades. He'd go out of his way to say hello to you, you could establish a rapport with him, and I never saw a negative side of him."

I don't know if this is really the fault of the press or the police, it seems like every time this happens you hear what a "good, quiet" kid this was followed by some later revelation of mental trouble/criminal record/etc. Its just human nature.

On the other hand, just because someone "never saw a negative side" doesn't mean he couldn't have been a quiet, well rounded criminal, either.

 

[MissileCop]

This whole tragedy could have been avoided, if better choices had been made.

NO 16 year old has any reason to be out on the street at 2 a.m. in the morning. Period.

So, was he a good child, who decided to rebel a little bit, and snuck out of the house, or is he a 'less than good' kid, due to less than adequate parental supervision?

Either way, if he had been home in bed where he belonged, none of this would have happened.

Disclaimer: I'm not that old, but even at 16, I knew it wasn't a wise choice to be out at that time of night, for fear of parental backlash alone.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Quote from Desertdog:
Here is a good illustration of why we have trouble in believing in the cops or the press, and I an starting to have extreme trouble with both of them.
Pay attention to where the body was located. Also why did it take sooo long to figure out what happened?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't understand the reasoning that you have troubling believing the press or the cops. Nothing in the stories suggests anything negative about cops or information provided by cops. As for not believing the press, well, that is always a problem. The press is rarely an expert on the topic and often is too focussed on getting a story out over getting details correct. So there are problems with the press. That is hardly a surprise.

So what was the beef about the location of the body? There is no indication that there is a discrepency about the location of the body between the stories. There was only ONE description of where the body was found, on a city street. That was in the first story. In the second story, the kid was described as being shot outside of his home. That makes no mention of where the body was found and there was no mention of body location in the third story. So, there is only one reference to where the body was found, in the city street, and that city street may well be outside the dead kid's home. I have a street outside of my home as do most city and suburban homes. Note that where a person was shot may or may not be the location where they are later found as a dead body. Outside the home and on a city street and not necessarily at odds with one another.

Why did it take so long? Well, why do you think it is so long? The progression was a supposed murder/self defense to being charged in a week's time. Considering the event was not witnessed and the police initially had no suspects when the body was found, that all sounds like pretty good work (based on the news stories presented). They went from zero with zero witnesses to identifying a suspect, locating the suspect, arresting, and charging the suspect. Assuming they got the right guy, it sounds like they moved at a pretty good clip.

 

[Matt G]

Clearly, there's more to this story than we, who were not there, can glean from some scattered news stories reprinted on the Internet. Don't be hasty to judge from what you read here.

It is interesting the different takes on the situation, though, isn't it?

 

[gyp_c2]

I dunno' what the deal is...Was he two miles from home, at home or outside the home. Did the store owners see it or just hear about it...It doesn't sound right that the kid would be playing with a plastic gun and getting shot by a buddy over it...Maybe he was shot and moved with the plastic put into his hand by his "friend"...dunno...guess It hasn't leaped out at me yet...I'll back track...g2

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

What has been troubling me is how the shooter can claim self-defense after not notifying anybody

Also, if a toy gun was used, where is it?

 

[yawgoog]

Something is indeed confusing here. Perhaps the police just didn't disclose some information to the press. The police might of said 'we have no suspects' but really did.

If this was an actually self defense shooting that occurred at 2:00am, then a suspect should of been found at 2:10am - the guy that did the defensive shooting.

 

[labgrade]

I must agree with tcsd1236 on this.

"factual reporting" by the press is sketching at best & there is no reliance on their accuracy - epecially for "timely reporting." I find it somewhat lackluster at best - "needing" to be "first on scene with the best & most."

5-day's worth of "solid info" & still they've no further clue as to what happened.

Even if the "facts" are finally cleared up as to the truth, there is no reason for them to retract, or correct their previous gleanings.