Jacka L Ope
Member
Correct that Toro was first to resort to possible use of deadly force by drawing a weapon first?
Bad idea.
Undercover Road Rage in Seattle
- Thread starter Dain Bramage
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Correct that Toro was first to resort to possible use of deadly force by drawing a weapon first?
Bad idea.
pacodelahoya
Member
Depends on who's account you chose to believe.
Why do undercovers seem to think that brandishing a weapon is the same as a badge. A weapon is escalation, a badge is de-escalation.
3 undercovers covering each others story while Toro is left hanging in the wind with his. Sure, the 1 fingered salute is not polite, however, it is also not illegal. Brandishing a gun is and should be, regardless of who did the brandishing.
Plus, at least Toro could hit what he was aiming at.
3 undercovers covering each others story while Toro is left hanging in the wind with his. Sure, the 1 fingered salute is not polite, however, it is also not illegal. Brandishing a gun is and should be, regardless of who did the brandishing.
Plus, at least Toro could hit what he was aiming at.
gc70
Member
Is that a misdemeanor or a felony?
Seattle PD training must not stress situational awareness.
Holes
What I wonder about is two things:
1. Why didn't Toro call in an assault complaint after the fact? The police had to contact him hours later? Something's wrong with this picture. You have two major deadly weapons categories used against him (vehicle and firearms) with allegedly credible aggression, and he didn't call in to make a report? I sure as hell would have. For a lot of reasons, too.
I understand that if you're driving 100 mph and taking a defensive position, it's kinda hard to make a cell call. I'm not suggesting he should have done that. Too much to keep track of. Although it would have been a nice touch, especially if he is as innocent as all that.
2. When he fired, was he in fear for his life? If so, why wouldn't he shoot the occupants of the vehicle, instead of tires? Did they ID themselves, albeit probably not very credibly by this time? Or was Toro not really in fear for his life? Or did he decide that maybe he did escalate the situation, and just wanted it to go away... ?
I find it very easy to believe that the LEOs could have behaved exactly as Toro's family described. But I have to question Toro's motivations, and therefore his story.
I think we haven't heard the truth yet. From either side.
I'm sure there will be a few of the always-pro-cop sorts here cheering to see me take this position, but don't get cocky; all I care about is the truth, and we get it so rarely from our establishment (whatever subsection thereof happens to be the topic of the day) that I don't put anything past it.
It could be interesting to monitor this story...
What I wonder about is two things:
1. Why didn't Toro call in an assault complaint after the fact? The police had to contact him hours later? Something's wrong with this picture. You have two major deadly weapons categories used against him (vehicle and firearms) with allegedly credible aggression, and he didn't call in to make a report? I sure as hell would have. For a lot of reasons, too.
I understand that if you're driving 100 mph and taking a defensive position, it's kinda hard to make a cell call. I'm not suggesting he should have done that. Too much to keep track of. Although it would have been a nice touch, especially if he is as innocent as all that.
2. When he fired, was he in fear for his life? If so, why wouldn't he shoot the occupants of the vehicle, instead of tires? Did they ID themselves, albeit probably not very credibly by this time? Or was Toro not really in fear for his life? Or did he decide that maybe he did escalate the situation, and just wanted it to go away... ?
I find it very easy to believe that the LEOs could have behaved exactly as Toro's family described. But I have to question Toro's motivations, and therefore his story.
I think we haven't heard the truth yet. From either side.
I'm sure there will be a few of the always-pro-cop sorts here cheering to see me take this position, but don't get cocky; all I care about is the truth, and we get it so rarely from our establishment (whatever subsection thereof happens to be the topic of the day) that I don't put anything past it.
It could be interesting to monitor this story...
pacodelahoya
Member
Hey, at least he hit SOMETHING!!
According to the cops, they shot and completely missed Toro's car, maybe they weren't afraid for their lives either?
Maybe he thought that since(according to him), the other guys shot first, he shot back and no one was hit that it was no harm, no foul???
OP
OP
Dain Bramage
Member
This incident broke in the middle of an uproar over other recent Seattle PD coverups. Former golden boy SPD Chief Kerlikowski is getting both barrels from the local press. They're calling for increased civilian oversight. Mayor Nichols, as oily a politico as you will find west of Chicago, is sure to roll over on him to save his own skin.
I'd almost feel sorry for Kerli, but since he's an active anti, I'll just sit back with some popcorn and watch the rats eat their own.
HankB
Member
Like those of us whose only knowledge of what happened is the story posted here, it's hard to reach a reasoned conclusion.
The fact that Toro shot out the tires - rather than planting a round between the other driver's eyes - strongly argues in favor of his version of the story.
As to the proper way to deal with road rage . . . I live in Texas, where people are occasionally known to carry guns.
Trying to pick a fight with another driver, a stranger who may be armed, is the mark of a fool.
I don't care what fools think about me or my driving.
So when a would-be road-rager flips me the bird or cusses me out, I don't respond in kind - I smile, shrug, and try to make him think I'm apologizing for whatever it is the fool thinks I did. (I'm probably thinking something very different, something along the lines of
. . . but my public face is placid.)
If the situation escalates to the point where I need to use deadly force to protect myself or my passengers, I will . . . but until that point is reached, I'm going to be as sure as possible that all the escalation will be on the part of the other guy.
The fact that Toro shot out the tires - rather than planting a round between the other driver's eyes - strongly argues in favor of his version of the story.
As to the proper way to deal with road rage . . . I live in Texas, where people are occasionally known to carry guns.
Trying to pick a fight with another driver, a stranger who may be armed, is the mark of a fool.
I don't care what fools think about me or my driving.
So when a would-be road-rager flips me the bird or cusses me out, I don't respond in kind - I smile, shrug, and try to make him think I'm apologizing for whatever it is the fool thinks I did. (I'm probably thinking something very different, something along the lines of
. . . but my public face is placid.)If the situation escalates to the point where I need to use deadly force to protect myself or my passengers, I will . . . but until that point is reached, I'm going to be as sure as possible that all the escalation will be on the part of the other guy.
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