Underwater sights

[foxfish]

Hi Guys I have just joined your site.

I live in Guernsey, a little island between England & France.
I am a avid spear fisherman & own some nice spear guns, but my problem is finding a waterproof sight I have tried using laser sights but they just don't do the job, in fact I can't see the dot under water! I was thinking of trying a red dot sight or a fibre optic sight?
My question is, how can I waterproof such a sight or is there a waterproof sight available? Any help or comments would be appreciated

B lucky Foxfish.

Two of my customised spear guns.

 

[Thefabulousfink]

I like the camo job on your spear guns and snorkel (sp?).

The EOtech holographic sight is waterproof (I don't know to what depth) and would probably work well underwater where you can't line up your sights easily.

Try contacting them to see how deep it can go.http://www.eotech-inc.com/index2.php

Some of these electric sights might need some additional waterproofing, but nothing some plexiglass, underwater glue, and creativity couldn't solve.

 

[Darth Ruger]

Some models of the EOTech are submersible to 10 feet, some to 33 feet, indefinitely, according to their website.

 

[cmidkiff]

Hmmm, My spear gun doesn't have any sights at all. In fact, I can't recall ever seeing a spear gun with sights, or any way of mounting such a critter. I can't imagine taking a shot further than 10 feet, in any case. Underwater ballistics is a whole different world, using sights designed for normal firearms is unlikely to provide satisfactory results.

Now, to be honest, I live in the midwest, most of my diving is in rather murky fresh water, with a visibility of something less than 20'. If I can't see it, I darn sure can't shoot it! The single band gun that I use has a fairly short range, and I set a retention cord on it at 10'.

What are you shooting at? How long of a shot are you planning on taking?

 

[GunnySkox]

http://www.eotech-inc.com/news_upgrades.php

If you call EOTech, you could probably discuss the price of getting a holosight water-proofed to 66 feet (the holosights are steep, though, pricewise and you'd have to see if your spearguns can even mount them, and it might be a chore to sight it in).

Nifty-looking spearguns, by the way!

~GnSx

P.S.~ Welcome to THR.

 

[Fu-man Shoe]

Come on guys...this is a fairly transparent troll of the "ask an off the wall question with a straight face, and then watch the gun nuts get all spun up about it and start fighting amongst themselves" variety.

Bears on crank, anyone?

 

[mbs357]

Red is the most filtered out color in ocean water...
Maybe green lasers? (Do they even make those?)
Zero posts?

 

[foxfish]

Wow guys you are a keen bunch. My question is not a wind up, I have 35 years of underwater hunting experience. I must say there seems to be a technology gap between above water guns & underwater guns! I would also like to point out I joined your site to gain some of the technology available from more knowledgeable people than myself.
After checking out the internet I have found a few water proof sights available, however they seem very expensive & maybe not suitable? I recently brought a waterproof laser (advertised as suitable for spear guns) which proved to be useless!
Generally speaking I hunt in shallow water, say 15', for fish up to 15lb (about 30'' in length) It would seem a red (or green) dot sight would be a suitable improvement on the open sights normally associated with spear guns.
I am prepared to modify & waterproof any potential sights but as this is a bit of an experimental exercise I dont want to be continuously modifying & ruining expensive pruducts!
b lucky Mart.

By the way spear gun sights have been tried before, check out this beauty! A telescopic equipped spear gun.

 

[Thefabulousfink]

foxfish, there are cheeper holographic sights out there. EOtech is simply the best and most rugged. They are used by the US military and have to be "Grunt Proof", they can be bashed into rocks, submerged in water, dragged through mud, sand, ice, and still work. I would say they are your best bet (as far as holo sights go) for surviving in an underwater enviroment.

Send them an email, it doesn't cost anything and, who knows, they might let you demo a new product.

 

[CWL]

I have two Holoscopes and I love them on my rifles, they are easier to use than ACOGs or Aimpoints, but they are definitely not "Grunt Proof". I have used them in heavy rain, but wouldn't trust them as a dedicated and reliable underwater sight system.

For a cheaper solution that is adaptable, you may want to take a look at Hi-Viz products, particularly the ones for shotguns. These have generous light-pipes for accumulating light.

http://www.hivizsights.com/

 

[foxfish]

Hey guys thanks for the positive replies

The EO Tech range really looks the business & HI-VIS has got to be worth a go.
I think I would have to examine a EO Tech before spending that sort of money but I have sent them a Email to see what they think? HI-VIS will be ordered today!
Now did someone mention a GREEN LASER that might be the ultimate. Very often fish can appear seemingly out of nowhere! And very close, to close to aim down the barrel! That, I feel is when a laser would be of most benefit.
b lucky Mart.

 

[Owen]

nice fish

 

[Bwana John]

***???
I do quite a bit of spearfishing in the Sea of Cortez, and Channel Islands National Park, and dont think "optics" would help at all.

First: All the ranges are too short, especially for the little spear guns you all have. The effective range of a speargun is not much more than 1.5 spearlenghts.
Second: There is not enough time to use a "scope".
Third: Spears are very slow, and fish are very fast. You are aiming at where the fish will be, not really where it is. Its more of a shotgun thing, you dont aim as much as feel the shot.

If you really need help aiming I might suggest a bright colored line painted on the top of the barrel (violet actually penetrates water best) that runs parallel to, and on the left side the spear (for right handers) so the parallax to the fish is more obvious.

Before you spend all kinds of good money after bad on optics you should purchace a floating line and lifeguard can so you can actually land that big boy after he takes off with your whole rig. If you are SCUBA diving at least get a reel.
If you really want to improve your hunting try a nice teak Riffe gun, much quieter that those hollow aluminum barrels. There is "no free lunch" if you are having problems spearing fish you need to practice more. Set up empty soda bottles with a string and weight on the bottom to get the feel of where your gun shoots to with the band configuration you are currently using (POI changes with different bands).
You need to be more stealthy, work on your diving- many fish will be spooked just by clearing your ears, do you empty your snorkel before hunting? That trail of bubbles spooks fish. Do you avoid eye contact while stalking? Instead of trying to buy your fish with high technology you need to just get out and hunt more, GET CLOSER!!!, remember everything appears 25% closer underwater.

And heres dinner for the whole Rancho!

 

[foxfish]

Thanks for that John, although it was not quite the information I need.
I did point out I am a experienced spear fisherman, in fact I have been free diving with a spear gun for 35 years.
As a active member of Deeper Blue forums I have plenty of other spearos with who I can discuss the finer points of spearfishing with.
The point is I want to take my success to a higher level, with ever depleting fish stocks worldwide, every shot counts. I kill for food as well as for sport & I see no reason to stay in the dark ages if technology can help me to accurately & cleanly kill my quarry.
I dont mean to be ungrateful for you post as it is always good to discus all aspects & points of view on a open forum. As regards spear guns, you are quite justified to point out the benefits of wood. I have a laminated wooden roller gun, but the gun I intend to fit a sight to is the latest in spear gun technology, a Mamba 90. These super powerful & smooth air compressed guns use a series of "O" rings to prevent water entering the barrel, resulting in a far more effective gun than a conventional air gun.
I am not surprised that other spearos are members of this site, has spearfishing ever been discussed before?
b lucky Mart.

Cape Verdi.

 

[Bwana John]

So foxfish.. go for it, and let us know how it works. I still you are kind of think you are "putting lipstick on a pig", but as I have been reminder here often, "one mans pig is another ones prom date".

But then again, I also dont like optics or lazers or flashlights on a MBR either.

Because of Mexican regulations I can only shoot rubber-band powered guns, while breath holding, no SCUBA. Air guns seam to be much more of a Euro thing, almost nowbody uses them on the West Coast of the US, it's mostly rubber bands.

Not many people seem to spearfish- I grew up next to the beach with my earlyist memorys being mask, snorkels, fins, kelp, and hawiian slings, and I love eating fish.

If you are going to be visiting the West Coast of the US let me know, and I can set you with info to go hunting, both in the Sea of Cortez, and California... I think you might really be amazed at the hunting here, not just fish but lobsters, scallops, abalone, clams... just be ready for cold water (possibly).

 

[foxfish]

Thanks John I may well take you up on that offer.
Funny thing is I live in the Channel Islands. Guernsey is one of the Channel Islands just off the coast of France. The water temp is 10c at the moment but warming all the time, spring time over here.
I dont do any Scuba only free dive.
b lucky Mart.

 

[nbkky71]

How about something like this? It's an underwater laser pointer.

http://www.island-scuba.com/page/001/PROD/sublights/ACCDL70

Here's another URL:
http://www.genaldi.com/scuba.html

Of course, establishing a good zero on your speargun might take a little work.

 

[foxfish]

Thanks 71, that is the one that started all this off! I took it in the water & could not see the spot at 2'
Thanks anyway
b lucky Mart.

 

[jim frank]

You can buy green laser pointers on e-bay for about $50 USD. Making a waterproof housing would be a fairly easy chore, at least for modest depths. Green is right at the peak of the human eye's sensitivity to light, and transmits fairly well through water. Might be worth $60 or so to build one and try it...

 

[Bwana John]

Just for clarity, that is the "Santa Barbera Channel Islands", a National Park that most people dont know about. The park is comprised of 5 islands from 15 to 40 miles offshore south-central California. Spear fishing is allowed in ~ 70% of the water surronding the islands. There are actually 8 of them out there, 5 are National Park (Annacapa, Santa Barbera, Santa Cruz, Santa Rosa, and San Miguel), 2 are military(San Clemente, San Nickolus), and one is semi-private (Santa Catalina). They are in a area rich with sealife, the kelp forests surrounding them are spectacular.

I always wondered about all the hits I get when trying to Google info on these "Channel Islands" and get yours instead.

If those "Ormers" are a species of Haliotis you would love Ab diving in Northern California. The size there allowed to be harvested must be bigger than 18 cm with the record being 30+ cm. The limit is three per day, six in posession, 25 per season, and each one has more than .7 kg of meat. The meat sells for ~$150 US per kg, if you can find it. We call the Northern California animals "Red Abalone", and they are very prolific when you get more than 150 km north of San Francisco. If you dont mind cold water (10 c), can deal with kelp, and freedive to 10 m, AND the sea is calm, you just swim out and get them.

I think the laser will spook the fish. I know they drive my dog crazy.

 

[gazpacho]

A self luminated fiber optic sight like a shotgun Hi-Vis type would be best. Anything electronic would be pointless. I think tru-glo has a couple of good choices.

 

[foxfish]

This is a great site I have received more information from you guys than I have found on the spearfishing sites (regarding sights).
I am particular interested in the Hiviz range, unfortunately they have not, as yet, responded to my Email asking for advice on which model would be most suitable for my application. Have any of you guys got any first hand experience with these sights? I think green would be the best colour, some of the paint ball models look good too?

Summer in the Channel Islands (England)

 

[foxfish]

I have now sent two Emails to Hivis, still no response? Unfortunately there does not seem to be a English outlet!
Checked out Green lasers on EBay, apparently 50 x times more power than a red beam!!! Allegedly you can see the beam as a line though the air & even "spot" low clouds up to 2 miles away!
I wonder if that would work underwater?

 

[foxfish]

Hi guys, I thought I would give you a update on my progress regarding underwater sights.
I did finally get some Hiviz sights although I never did get any response from the company itself EBay was the ansaw
However before I give you my report on how they fared underwater I thought you may be interested in my new air gun. I did mention in a earlier post I Owen a Mamba Air gun, basically these guns, unlike most airguns, do not allow water to enter the barrel. The result is far more power, spear speed & reduced recoil.
To give an example, a conventional band gun of 1.2mt length powered by two rubber bands, sends the spear at 30mts a second. The mamba at 900mm sends the spear at 40mts a second & is much easier & faster to load.
I fitted a Hiviz at each end of the gun (green) the results have been very interesting. The most obvious thing I noticed was the fact I have been instinct shooting all along & found it quite difficult to adjust to actually aiming my gun! However I persisted & eventually found my mark.
I would like to thank you guys who helped me to achieve a new concept in spear gun accuracy.
I have always been keen to improve my weapons with personal customizing & my mamba has not been left out! The basic gun is a bit boring to look at & not very well balanced so I built a custom sleeve to fit over the barrel.

 

[Bwana John]

So, what is your final thought on lasers for spearfishing?
Are you going to always use them from now on?

I like the float line and float with flag set up, I have been using a 75m float line and a plastic lifeguard bouy.

Quite the fancy gun! Unfortunatly we must use rubber band powered guns in Mexico.