UNFIRED H&R Garands?

[gbw]

At a gun show an older gent who's an experienced dealer was selling 2 of what he called 'Unfired H&R Garand Rifles', asking $1495.

He said the government sold these to him, recently (I think) in Anniston, Al. We're in the deep south so the Anniston part is certainly possible.

They did look new and had H&R receivers, barrels, very new looking 'black walnut' type stocks, but I'm skeptical. Seems to me if anyone found any unfired Garands they would go for considerably more?

I recall CMP 're-did' some garands with new stocks and barrels, but were the barrels marked H&R?

I'm interested but skeptical, and I'm not a Garand expert. I have an old pre-WWII Winchester mixmaster for shooting and like so many, I'm a fan.

For those of you who know these rifles, what should I ask and what to look for, and how likely is this actually to be?

Would you buy, and for what price?

Thanks

 

[GCBurner]

Sounds like what the CMP calls a "Correct Grade", which comes with all original parts, as issued. Prices on a CMP H&R Correct Grade at the Anniston South Store are $1150, plus $24.95 shipping, if mail ordered. These are out of stock for mail order right now, though there may still be some available at the store itself.

 

[Hacker15E]

The Garand Collectors Association with the CMP did sell off some unfired/unissued Harrington and Richardson Garands within the last three years or so.

At $1500, that is probably not one of them.

 

[1KPerDay]

I recall CMP 're-did' some garands with new stocks and barrels, but were the barrels marked H&R?

No. FYI They have done a couple of things:

"correct grade" barreled actions/metal in new stocks/handguards, HRA or Springfield "service grade special". These will have GI barrels.

CMP "Special Grade" with new commercial barrels and fresh park, and new wood. These will not have GI barrels.

Yours sound like "correct grade" or maybe the ersatz "collector grade" possibly, and if so, the price isn't super unreasonable, but I SERIOUSLY doubt they are "unfired."

The CMP auctions for truly unfired, unissued, still-in-storage-wrap Garands go for many, many thousands of dollars.

 

[rondog]

Did the area around his table smell like a stable?

 

[nathan]

HRA s in unissued condition are the best there is in quality and workmaship. ANything made in the 1950s and 60s era are much better fit and finish. My Garand s are both HRAs.

 

[USSR]

This is easy. Ask him for the paper work that would have come with them.

Don

 

[igotta40]

"Ask him for the paper work that would have come with them"

Each rifle will have a certificate of authenticity with the grade, buyer's name and the rifle's serial number. Anyway, mine did.

Possibly he has a CMP Special, which is what I bought. It is essentially "unfired" in that it was fired eight times at the armory after the new barrell was installed.

 

[Orlando]

CMP has auctioned unissued Garands and have averaged in the $6000.00 range

 

[Amend2]

H&R

I recently received a H&R Garand from CMP. Ordered Service Grade and crossed my fingers. The rifle they delivered has matching barrel and receiver which appear to have been not used much, if at all, and the stock is new (looks stained but otherwise unfinished). It could pass for "unfired." A bargain at $625.

 

[Orlando]

To the newbie maybe

 

[1KPerDay]

I recently received a H&R Garand from CMP. Ordered Service Grade and crossed my fingers. The rifle they delivered has matching barrel and receiver which appear to have been not used much, if at all, and the stock is new (looks stained but otherwise unfinished). It could pass for "unfired." A bargain at $625.

Cool, congrats. Got a pic?

 

[Orlando]

There is no such thing as a unfired Garand. They were all proof test fired
Unissued ? Yes Unfired ? No

 

[Reloadron]

There is no such thing as a unfired Garand. They were all proof test fired
Unissued ? Yes Unfired ? No

Heed what Orlando has to say.

They did look new and had H&R receivers, barrels, very new looking 'black walnut' type stocks...

So if a M1 Garand was unfired (not likely) and unissued it would have a correct cartouche on the original stock wouldn't it? It would not have new walnut.

M1 Garand rifles fall roughly into two categories. There are prized and highly sought after collectables where every piece and part is correct costing thousands of dollars depending and there are shooters. Most shooters are mixmaster rifles that shoot fine and bring enjoyment to the owner.

There are volumes of text out there on these rifles. Books by Scott Duff and Bruce Canfield come to mind. Those with a strong interest in these rifles should consult these books.

Ron

 

[cfullgraf]

They did look new and had H&R receivers, barrels, very new looking 'black walnut' type stocks, but I'm skeptical.

...

I recall CMP 're-did' some garands with new stocks and barrels, but were the barrels marked H&R?

...

CMP sells a grade called the Service Grade Special. It is essentially collector grade metal with a new CMP walnut stock. There will be a CMP cartouche on the side of the stock. These go for about $950 or so from CMP. The rifles saw little or no use and CMP has stated they do not know where the original stocks went.

CMP has a grade called the CMP Special. These are refurbished rifles with new production barrels and stocks. They can be had in 30-06 or 308 Winchester. These are only Springfield receivers. price is around $1000.

CMP had listed a correct and collector grades but, except for auction rifles, I do not think they have had any for sale for a number of years. At least in the last four years that I have been actively shopping at CMP.

My guess would be the rifles are Service Grade Specials. They would be fine rifles but if you are willing to wait, you can save money buying from CMP. Unfortunately, CMP is buried with orders at the present.

CMP is located in Anniston, AL, and is a federally chartered 501(c)(3) corporation.

 

[Ignition Override]

A friend who recently moved away to south FL has a very nice H&R for sale-the price is more than that for a Service Grade Special, and it could be more unique. He told me that many H&Rs are often considered the best of the Garand series, unless I misunderstood.
I have his cell phone number.

I know very little about Garands, but he won more than a dozen Garands as prizes, and this H&R is certainly not cheap, but from what he briefly described, it could be worth it for those with such a really good M-1 budget.
No chance of talking my wife into it....

Not only does he know Garands pretty well, he showed me 'The' thick Garand book to trace component serial numbers, production dates etc. Please pardon the boring trivia.
I miss my former 'gun guru' who was a frequent coworker.

 

[gbw]

My guess would be the rifles are Service Grade Specials. They would be fine rifles but if you are willing to wait, you can save money buying from CMP. Unfortunately, CMP is buried with orders at the present.

Thanks. This is almost certainly what I saw, as you said available for CMP for $975, so his markup (50%) is somewhat steep. I'll order one from CMP and wait a couple of months.

 

[1KPerDay]

Thanks. This is almost certainly what I saw, as you said available for CMP for $975, so his markup (50%) is somewhat steep.

Service Grade Specials (correct grade GI-barreled rifles in new wood) went for about $750 initially and $895 in the latest batch IIRC

SPECIAL GRADES (new barrels, new park, new wood) went for $925 originall and are currently $995.

 

[gbw]

RM1HRASSP
M1 Garand, Service Grade HRA (Harrington & Richardson) Special.

HRA collector grade metal in excellent almost new condition. Walnut stocks and handguards and associated hardware are new manufacture. NOT original HRA manufacture.

Allow 30-60 days for delivery.
$950 Effective 1-3-2012
S&H $24.95 per rifle

This is the reference I had in mind, from the CMP site today 3-27-2013, this price effective for over a year now.

 

[cfullgraf]

That's the one.

You will be pleased.

 

[saitek]

m1

i think the day of un issued m1'sare just about over ,in 1985 i got my m1 from the ( dcm ) prior to the cmp .it was a brand new h&r 1953 newley assembled from parts. the only not matching part was the bolt (trw ) .birch stock cost $260.00 delivered to the door by the dcm .
the funny thing was me and the ol man both sent in for them at the same time ,both shipped to the same address the only difference in the name's were the middle innitall .mine was new and his was a 1943 springfield with a tomato stake stock .

 

[tahunua001]

those were CMP garands.
1. CMP has two stores, one of them is in Anniston. they used to have winchesters, springfields and H&Rs but now they are pretty much out of everything but H&Rs.
2. CMP is not the government, they are government sponsored but they are a nonprofit organization. they get garands from US government storage and they clean them up, inspect them, repair as necessary and sell them to fund community outreach type programs.
3. there is no such thing as an unfired garand, they were all at a minimum test fired and most saw at least limited service. there is no way of telling which ones were fired and which ones weren't there is just no way around not having a paper trail.
4. those H&R rifles which were more than likely service grades have brand new wood which hurts collectors value and only cost $650 from CMP. CMP is running out of serviceable stocks so even the cheaper service grades are being shipped with new stocks. the guy is buying CMP garands and selling them for more than 100% profit and quoting BS to make a easy sale, the guy sounds like a real 'winner' to me.

 

[musicman10_1]

I bought a Correct grade HRA M1 a few years ago at the Western Games (CMP event). The thing is just pristine. I am sure that it was test fired but it doesn't look like it. It is very well preserved and the bore and chamber are near perfect. It dates to 1955 but it simply looks like a new rifle. I know that it is nothing extraordinary but there are some that could pass as "barely used," if you will.

 

[Orlando]

I agree the last Correct Grades did "look" new but CMP is no dummy.
"If" they would have been unissued Graands they would not let a $6000 rifle slip through their fingers, it would have gone to auction.
Alot of guys that are used to seeing Garands that are beat to heack see a Service Grae or Collector Grade that is real nice auotmatically "think" they have a Unfired, Unissued rifle.
Its all wishfull thinking

 

[bernie]

I got a service grade H&R from the CMP a year or so ago, and it looked pristine. It had that "unfired" look. However, it was obviously not, as it had a WRA milled trigger guard. But the finish was matched perfectly.