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Ever try to go to Mexico and get a JOB without a visa? Ever go to Mexico and commit a crime, or be suspected of committing a crime? Been shaken down by the cops? Hell, have you ever BEEN to Mexico?

Several times I have been, I do speak spanish, and I spend good chunks of time when I go. Getting a simple job without a Visa isn't that difficult, and getting a work visa, while a process, is much, much easier to do there for an American than for a Mexican to do here.

Americans commit drug crimes without consequence in Mexico all the time. Investigative powers and arrest powers are lacking, and when cops shake you down, rest assured it has absolutely nothing to do with your immigration status and everything to do with the fact that there may be money in your pocket. Mexicans get shaken down by the police even more often than we do.

Here's a quiz for you: how far can you legally travel into Mexico without checking in with authorities and getting a tourist permit?

I'm not sure, I don't go to the border regions. When I fly to Mexico though, all I need is my driver's license and to fill out a single sheet of paper, in exhange for a stub. A "tourist permit" is just a piece of paper that you fill out on the airplane, and requires no advance notice, no passport, and nothing more than your driver's license. Compare that to what a Mexican needs just to come be a tourist in America...
 
<<What you are highlighting here is that the US and Mexico have different needs. Hence, we have different border/immigration policies. The fact that theirs is less harsh is what you seem to be admitting here...why they have a less complicated system is a different matter, but certainly, there's no question that it's easier for an American to go to Mexico than a Mexican to come and stay in America. It's even easier to be illegal there, since enforcement beyond the border zones is nil, and because it's so easy to go legally that there are numerous ways to avoid being caught.
>>

This is completely and utterly false. Their IMMIGRATION system is not less harsh. They have a very harsh IMMIGRATION system. What you are talking about is a tourist system. While it may be easy to go to Mexico as a tourist, it is not easy to go to Mexico as a worker. And, if you are caught, you are imprisoned and dealt with harshly. I would have no problem if the US agreed to have the same IMMIGRATION laws as Mexico, and the same enforcement as well. You simply cannot compare what it takes to visit a country as a tourist to what it takes to enter a country to work. Take New Zealand for example. My sister in law was born in New Zealand and maintains her NZ citizenship. It's very easy to go there on vactaion. However, my brother, who would love to live and work there, would face a tremendous hurdle. They have very restrictive laws on who they will allow to immigrate to NZ and remain there for employment reasons. So, just because it is easy to visit on vacation does not mean it is easy to go there to work. And, it does not mean that the punishment for violation of their immigration laws is not harsh.
 
What you are talking about is a tourist system. While it may be easy to go to Mexico as a tourist, it is not easy to go to Mexico as a worker. And, if you are caught, you are imprisoned and dealt with harshly. I would have no problem if the US agreed to have the same IMMIGRATION laws as Mexico, and the same enforcement as well.

And here's the point: It's much easier for an American to get a work or residency visa in Mexico than it is for a Mexican to get one here.

Besides the fact that they will not imprison an American and beat you for being there illegaly, they likely will never catch you at all, because they don't spend their time going around the interior looking for illegals like we sometimes do.

The whole system of Mexico's, including easier entry, easier visas, and little-to-no enforcement outside the border zones, make it many times easier for an American to go and work there, legaly or illegaly, than for a Mexican to come here.
 
Total BS Shootin. Head down to Mexico and break the law and see what happens to you in their jails. I guess all those news stories are just made up, right?

Check out this link for an in-depth look at Mexico's "easier" immigration laws.

http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/Mexicos_Immigration_Law.pdf#search='what%20are%20mexico%20immigration%20law

The fact remains that the US has tough restrictions on Mexicans because they don't follow the rules. Canadians, Brits, Australians, etc. follow the rules and it is much easier for them to get in the country. Oddly enough, it is harder for these people, who very often would contribute much more to our country (like it or not, manual labor doesn't add much to the GDP) have to jump through numerous hoops to work here, usually costing thousands and taking years. Mexicans just sneak across and then act like it's their right to be here and break our laws. Go figure.
 
That linked paper was neat but what exactly does it tell you? A bunch of potential punishments for pretty bare bones immigration crimes? I don't see how that two page "report" citing extremely general language from the Constitution changes anything we've talked about so far.


The fact remains that the US has tough restrictions on Mexicans because they don't follow the rules.

Okay, that's fine. If you think there are good reasons to restrict immigration, make the case. My point is that looking to Mexico's treatment of immigration is ridiculous, in the first place because what Mexico does has nothing to do with what America needs to do, and second, because Mexico (for whatever reason) makes it much easier on Americans who wish to go there than we do on Mexicans who want to come here.
 
All I need to go to mexico is a DL and the cash to get me there
Have at it and let us know when you finally get back into the US. Take extra clothes because you may be there for awhile unless you get a very understanding US immigration agent. On the other hand, you could simply walk back into the US and avoid all the hassle, after all you already have all of the ID you need. If you are stopped.
 
Have at it and let us know when you finally get back into the US. Take extra clothes because you may be there for awhile unless you get a very understanding US immigration agent. On the other hand, you could simply walk back into the US and avoid all the hassle, after all you already have all of the ID you need. If you are stopped.

I just did it in August. Our home immigration wanted a birth certificate or a passport in addition to the license.
 
shootinstudent-

As you said, you haven't been to the border regions of Mexico. It appears you haven't been to the border regions of the US, either, but no matter.

I suggest you visit the northern border regions of Mexico before trying to convince people who have lived along the border far longer than you've been alive that you know more than we do about it.

Just a thought.

I'm too old (and educated) to be interested in arguing about basic facts. Boring, and stupid.
 
Armedbear,

Please feel free to correct me if you think my facts are wrong. I welcome it.

I would certainly find it odd, though, that there are more stringent requirements to cross the border on foot than to fly all the way into Mexico on an airplane.
 
I'm not arguing that the US and Mexico have different needs and/or immigration laws. Clearly they do. What irks me is that the Mexican government tries to pressure the US to relax its laws while continuing to enforce its much harsher ones. Mexico faces significant pressure on its southern border. I can guarantee you that its not too easy for a Guatamalen or a Honduran to get into Mexico. That's because those people are to Mexico what Mexicans are to the US--a drag on their social services. So of course it will be harder for a Mexican to get into the US than it is for an American to get into Mexico. It is categorically false, however, that an American breaking the law in Mexico will be dealt with more leniently than a Mexican breaking the same law in the US (not that that should mean we should be as mean as Mexico, but rather that we should simply enforce our laws).
 
Im a kinda lurker here so if this is in another thread and i didnt notice my apologies. It was a letter from a retired border guard to his senator. figured shootin could apreciate it
Dear Senator Frist:

There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about illegal aliens, particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran aliens.

#1.
Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. Americans are very vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S. citizen. Mexicans, and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home countries while obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as employment, medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing and free education for their offspring. Their main attraction is employment and their loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits of American residence without paying the price.



#2.
There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens are doing jobs that Americans can't take and still support their families. Illegal aliens take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home, share expenses and send money to their home country. There are no jobs that Americans won't do for a decent wage.



#3.
Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home. They are NOT homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their home countries. They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the more than 20 billion dollars sent out of the country each year by illegal aliens. These illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in violation of the law and therefore assumed the risk of detection and deportation. Those who brought their alien children assumed the responsibility and risk on behalf of their children.



#4.
Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal aliens constitute less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and benefits for lawful U.S. residents.



#5.
This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million native born Americans. While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by immigrants (legal immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this planet that was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.



#6.
The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are not immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful immigrants every year than the rest of the world combined.



#7.
There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". Hispanics are white, brown, black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The so-called "Hispanic vote" is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the Hispanic vote is a dead end.



#8.
Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have resented the United States. During World War I Mexico allowed German Spies to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S. During World War II Mexico allowed the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold War Mexico allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. If you don't believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written for their schoolchildren.



#9.
Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better life, there are 6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those live on less than one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to break the law and sneak into America, then let's allow those one billion to come to America and we'll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight. Besides, there are 280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I'll bet Bill Gates and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat be full? Since when is wanting a better life a good reason to trash another nation?



#10.
There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives, senior citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would gladly take jobs at a decent wage.



#11.
It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about wanting secure borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting people to sneak into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal aliens, senior citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about race that entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and take the American Dream without paying the price? For about four decades American politicians have refused to secure our borders and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There has already been riots in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There will be more. You, as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who have stolen into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S. citizens or to offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The interest will be steep either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning. Do you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will you bow to the wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to remain here? There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this year, again in 2008 and yet again in 2010. We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators and thieves.

David J. Stoddard
U.S. Border Patrol (RET)
 
I just did it in August. Our home immigration wanted a birth certificate or a passport in addition to the license.

In a previous post you said all you needed was a DL and a little cash. I suspect that the rest of your 'facts' are as fluid as well.
 
In a previous post you said all you needed was a DL and a little cash. I suspect that the rest of your 'facts' are as fluid as well.

Before you make snide remarks, it might be wise to consider that this was a thread about how to get in to Mexico, and that post is about how to come back to the United States.
 
308win, haha, well, this was after all a discussion about how to get into mexico and stay illegaly, as if that tells us what we should do with our immigration here.

I think that was kind of the point: It's easier to go there than to come here.

no offense intended, none taken
 
Quote: Before you make snide remarks, it might be wise to consider that this was a thread about how to get in to Mexico, and that post is about how to come back to the United States.

No, this was a thread about unwanted visitors (illegals). for some reason you keep calling them immigrants. calling an illegal alien an immigrant is like calling a burglar an unwanted house guest.

what say you now, in this 'shootinstudent vs. all' debate.
 
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