Unique powder and .45-70G and .44 Mag?

[3Crows]

I have quite a bit of Unique powder but have never used it. I am thinking now I should. The two cartridges I might would load are .45-70 and .44 Magnum, perhaps .30-30. I find a lot of internet info, for example, the quote below but my few manuals do not have much for this combo.

"Unique is a great powder for the 45-70. It isn't position sensitive at all and you don't need a filler to hold the powder to the primer. Besides Unique powder, I use Starline brass and CCI 200 primers. The gun I use is a Marlin Guide Gun with an 18 inch barrel."

I am not advanced enough to use any sort of filler or waddings. For .45-70 I would be using Starline brass, 405 grain HCL bullets and CCI 200 LRP. For .44 Magnum Starline brass, 240 grain HCL bullets, Winchester LPP. I am just looking for mild loads and hunting capable loads.

 

[jonas66]

I can't speak to hunting loads with Unique, but one of my favorite and least expensive target loads is 8

grains of Unique under a 350 grain (340 gr mold, Lee 457-340-F, but my lead is range scrap) cast water

quenched rnfp in a single shot 45-70, 24" barrel.

At that light of a charge, it does seem to drop a bit at 100 yards.

Starline brass, whatever primers I have on hand. I use thinned out LLA for lube.

I don't use any kind of filler and haven't noticed any position sensitivity - I've tried powder forward, back, level- no difference I can see.

 

[Lennyjoe]

Hornady lists 10.7 gr as max with 240 gr bullets in .44 Mag running about 1200 FPS.

 

[v8stang289]

10gr unique under a 240gr SWC is one of my favorite 44 mag loads.
Its accurate out of my 2 3/4" M69, 8 3/8" M29, and my Marlin 1894.
Mild mannered but still packs a punch, I'd have no issues hunting medium game such as white tail with it.

 

[AJC1]

44 mag you will find loads capable of both. 45/70 there are plinking rounds, but I would not hunt with a unique load. Look to a rifle powder like 3031 for a humane hit. The trajectory is already crazy on 45/70 so I would advise a good trapdoor load at minimum for hunting.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I find Unique to be a good general purpose powder for a variety of pistol, shotgun and what I call light rifle rounds.

It may not be the perfectly best for 45-70 or .44 mag, but if it's all you have, there are usuable loads listed by reliable sources.

Personally, I have avoided using Unique in my rifles because the results of an accidental double charge could be disasterous. Call me chicken, I'll answer cluck cluck, rock-a-rooo. And yes, I manually inspect casings for consistent charge levels after charging before seating bullets using Unique in pistol rounds, but there is too much space in a rifle case for a double charge of Unique for me to trust me to not get distracted.

For Pete's sake (and yours), double check before seating the bullet.

 

[.38 Special]

I have no experience with Unique in the .45-70. I imagine it would work, but I also think that there are so many better powders for the application that I would not use it unless I absolutely had to.

I burn quite a bit of Unique in the .44 Magnum. Maximum loads with Unique kind of scare me, but middle-of-the-road ones are delightful. I prefer 8.5 grains with a jacketed 240 grain bullet.

 

[Armorer 101]

Unique by any other name would still be Unique. It can be used in pistol and rifle cases, in target and magnum loads. Different weight bullets and still shoot 1” at 200 meters. A 30-30 to a 30-06 will load with 10 grains with a 150 tp 180 gr bullet. From 25 ACP to a 454 there is a load.
Did I mention shotgun shells, yep, those too.
Maybe you need to start reading and pay attention, close attention, if you have Unique and have not used it.

 

[AJC1]

My manual has a 17 grain load for a 385 that is moving quick enough but that's not the bullet you have.

 

[3Crows]

Maybe you need to start reading and pay attention, close attention, if you have Unique and have not used it.

I have a lot of the Unique powder. I got several given by a friend and bought several more. I have not been using it because I have only now added a .44 Magnum to my arsenal (and planning another) and have a die set on the way to me for loading. For .45-70 I have been using Trail Boss and 4180 and for .30-30 mostly Hornady LR powder, for .45 Colt the TrailBoss. But with all of the shortages I thought to consume some of the Unique to learn a new powder and to conserve my preferred powders for hunting loads and conserve the Trail Boss for my lightest loads. I rarely, with few exception, do max loads, especially for fun shooting. I have a good selection of powders to work loads with, just want to learn the uniqueness of Unique! since I got plenty.

Looks like 10 grains of Unique under the 240 grain XTP should be okay for general usage, build up from the start load. I will be shooting in a CVA Scout V2 TD rifle and I am on the lookout for a new Henry side gate All Weather.

 

[nofendertom]

I have shot many 130gr cast bullets using Unique in my 30-30 (plinking).

 

[.308 Norma]

Looks like 10 grains of Unique under the 240 grain XTP should be okay for general usage

Yeah, I think so. I myself prefer 10 grains of Unique under a 250 grain cast SWC for general use in a 44 Mag, and I've fired thousands of that exact load over the years. But I'll bet "10 grains of Unique under a 240 grain XTP" would work swell too.

 

[Charlie98]

I don't load for the .44... but I've loaded literally thousands of .41MAG rounds with Unique. There is data everywhere for it.

I have also used Unique in the .45-70... the standard load is 15grn Unique under a 405grn cast bullet, it certainly gets the job done. I get 1200fps from my 32" Pedersoli, but a slightly faster 1220fps from my 26" Marlin 1895, so moar barrel doesn't really matter with such a 'fast' rifle powder. A word of caution, however. I have seen this very load 'detonate,' blow the case head out, and injure the shooter. I was there when it happened, so this isn't hoary internet lore. It was fired in a single-shot of some sort... a Sharps, or 1885 action, if memory serves. We (those of us present...) don't know if it was a weak case or some other anomaly, or truly a 'detonation.' The shooter is an experienced reloader, a double charge is unlikely, based on how he prepares his handloads. Because of this, I don't shoot the Unique load any longer... I stick with a more appropriate IMR or H4198... but Unique is valid. I recommend a tuft of Dacron on top of the charge prior to seating the bullet... this is nothing esoteric, Dacron is everywhere... stuffed dog and children's toys, pillows, winter coats. You can buy it by the sheet at craft stores. Just a pinch on top of that charge... and you are good. Never, ever use rigid disks or wads... just my .02 worth.

 

[3Crows]

Maybe I should confine the Unique to my .44 Magnum and .45 Colt and other suitable cartridges and leave the .45-70 to 4198 and TB for the time being. I am not expert enough to discern what can be safe vs what might not be thus I always follow the "books" and published data and seek expert advice.

 

[AJC1]

Maybe I should confine the Unique to my .44 Magnum and .45 Colt and other suitable cartridges and leave the .45-70 to 4198 and TB for the time being. I am not expert enough to discern what can be safe vs what might not be thus I always follow the "books" and published data and seek expert advice.

2400 would be a great option for both the listed cartridges if you found some. 4227 being the other good option.

 

[WrongHanded]

I've played with 2400 in .45-70, but not yet tried Unique. I also ended up buying Quickloads partly to work out how high I could load Unique under a 240gr XTP in .44 mag. Turns out 11.5gr is a little too much, but 11.0gr is a couple thousand PSI below SAAMI max pressure (with my cartridge measurements anyway).

 

[25-20 WCF]

While I prefer BlueDot, I have used Unique in my .45-70s. With 400-grain cast bullets, 11.0 grains gave me a good plinking load. Lyman lists a max load of 15.0 grains Unique under a 405-grain jacketed bullet in a T/C Contender - which has about the same strength as a Trapdoor. Velocity in a 16” barrel was over 1000 fps, perhaps nearer 1100 fps in a longer rifle barrel. That’s about what factory ammo gives and what the bullets are designed for - no reason to eschew that load for deer hunting in the woods.



.

 

[3Crows]

I've played with 2400 in .45-70, but not yet tried Unique. I also ended up buying Quickloads partly to work out how high I could load Unique under a 240gr XTP in .44 mag. Turns out 11.5gr is a little too much, but 11.0gr is a couple thousand PSI below SAAMI max pressure (with my cartridge measurements anyway).

I think I am going with 9.5 grains to start and build to 10 for the 240 grain FTX. I am a SLOW-loader .

 

[WrongHanded]

Well, just for shnitsngiggles I ran a few load options in Quickloads with Unique and some 405gr lead bullets (Lee and Lyman) in .45-70. The program suggests 16.0gr of Unique is below 28,000 PSI with both these bullets. And I wouldn't expect you'd need that much, but it'll at least give you a ceiling.

 

[3Crows]

Well, just for shnitsngiggles I ran a few load options in Quickloads with Unique and some 405gr lead bullets (Lee and Lyman) in .45-70. The program suggests 16.0gr of Unique is below 28,000 PSI with both these bullets. And I wouldn't expect you'd need that much, but it'll at least give you a ceiling.

I keep hearing this "detonation" thing! This bothers me for Unique in the .45-70. Though, I suspect, root cause was an overcharged case. There is an explanation for everything and I would like to understand how a powder can function well thousands of times and then suddenly one time not. But that is another thread for another day.

 

[Charlie98]

I keep hearing this "detonation" thing! This bothers me for Unique in the .45-70. Though, I suspect, root cause was an overcharged case. There is an explanation for everything and I would like to understand how a powder can function well thousands of times and then suddenly one time not. But that is another thread for another day.

No, I got you. If I had not witnessed the event myself, I would be skeptical. The shooter had to go to the emergency room with brass schards in his eye. Thankfully they missed the important stuff, and he kept his eye... but we still call him Rooster, now.

FWIW, I still had about 30 Unique loads loaded up after that instance. I was careful to 'muzzle up' my rifle after chambering a cartridge... getting that powder back against the primer... and everything went off well enough. It may be a 1 in a Million chance, but people play and win the lottery everyday...

I've also used 2400 in the .45-70, too, again... it works well enough, but I'd just rather stick with the tried and true 4198's, or AA5744 in a pinch.

 

[ahutch71]

I load a lot of 45-70 (Marlin 1895GG and Henry Single Shot) and 44 Mag (Marlin 1895 and Ruger SBH). I’ve used Unique for the 44 Mag and it works, but isn’t my favorite - prefer H110/W296 or 2400. The Marlin 1894 has the “traditional” 1:38 44 Mag twist and I like to keep the bullets lighter (200 or 240 grain) and moving faster to stabilize. I use Unique for 44 Special extensively though, especially when I’m shooting at slower velocities (700-900 FPS) from handguns (the SBH and a Charter Bulldog).

For 45-70, I like AA5574 or SW Buffalo Rifle (which is 5574 made by Lovex, the “old” 5744 manufacturer). H4198 and IMR 3031 also work really well - my heavy loads are almost all 3031 as I get the best accuracy from that powder.

Using Unique in either, I would recommend using Cream of Wheat or Cornmeal as a filler to prevent powder shifting and give very light compression. I do this with almost all loads that fill less than 50-60% of the cartridge unless I’m using 5574/Buffalo or Titegroup (in handgun rounds). Both of those are completely position insensitive from my experience.

 

[Charlie98]

For 45-70, I like AA5574 or SW Buffalo Rifle (which is 5574 made by Lovex, the “old” 5744 manufacturer).

I'm assuming you mean AA5744...?

I didn't know SW Buff Rifle was (virtually) the same as AA5744... interesting.

 

[3Crows]

No, I got you. If I had not witnessed the event myself, I would be skeptical.

Not disbelieving you witnessed the detonation event, not at all. But, in my former job as a service engineer (aviation) I often spoke with folks who truly believed they did what they said they did in a certain and specific way but the facts did not support their claims. And these individuals were extremely earnest, sincere and very experienced in their fields. What people think happened and what actually happened are not always congruent.

 

[jonas66]

Using Unique in either, I would recommend using Cream of Wheat or Cornmeal as a filler to prevent powder shifting and give very light compression.

Re: the 45-70 light loads with Unique...

ahutch71-- Do you just add the cream of wheat or cornmeal right on top of the powder before seating the bullet? Just plain like that?

I've heard this advice before, but I'm still new. Seems to me the filler would maybe mix with the powder?

I like my 8 grain load. I guess I'm leaning towards the dacron filler...