Universal hard to light?

[showmebob]

I was working up some new loads using Rainier 165 gr plated bullets for 40 S-W. Testing with a chronograph showed extreme spreads of over 108-136 fps. These loads were using Hodgdon data for Rainier 165 bullets, Universal powder and small pistol primers. Powder was measured accurately, everything seemed normal in the loading process. On the range recoil varied quite a bit within each test load.
As a test (I know, not recommended) I loaded up some using magnum primers and the spread dropped to 40 fps. Yes, (to my surprise) there was a 50 fps increase in speed as well and the primers were starting to show some slight pressure signs.
All this leads me to believe that Universal is a little hard to light off. Anyone else have a similar experience with Universal?

 

[Sunray]

You have any ignition issues with regular primers?
You use cast bullet data? Plated bullets are not jacketed. They use cast bullet data.
Magnum primers can cause slight increases in pressures, but there isn't any safety reason not to use 'em.

 

[rsrocket1]

You don't specify the charge nor do you specify your velocities so it's tough to know what you are doing. If you are using the bottom end of Hodgdon's data (4.8g), you might want to raise the charge up a bit and see what happens. If your variations are around 10%, you are doing pretty well. This isn't benchrest shooting for 1 MOA, it's for a pistol. When you say pressure signs, do you mean primer flattening in the primer pocket or slight cratering?

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I've never heard of Universal being hard to light.

Give us a little more information.

How many grains of powder were you using?

Yes, (to my surprise) there was a 50 fps increase in speed as well and the primers were starting to show some slight pressure signs.

Pressure signs that manifest themselves in bottleneck rifle rounds, don't always mean the same thing in a straight walled pistol round.

 

[gamestalker]

Are you referring to reading primers as your pressure indicator? AL brass is extremely difficult to read pressures on, chrony and brass extraction distances are usually more useful than reading primers with those.

What are the specifics of the load? Published data is a good pressure gauge when used in conjunction with oal and chrony numbers.

GS

 

[showmebob]

more info

My loads were straight from the manual for Berry's bullets (as close as I could find to Rainier bullets).
I started at 4.8 and graduated by .2 grains up to the max at 5.4
The load with the mag primer was the 5.4 load which could be slightly over pressure for a platted bullet. Insert standard Use at your own risk disclaimer here.
The load with the mag primer increased 53 fps over the same load standard primer and ES dropped by 80 fps avg over the entire run. I did not load many of these but may do a larger run and test them again.
The primers were starting to show a little increase of pressure signs with the mag primers over standard primers. Not anything to worry about, just something I noticed. They showed some slight signs of flattening.

 

[Potatohead]

You have any ignition issues with regular primers?
You use cast bullet data? Plated bullets are not jacketed. They use cast bullet data.
Magnum primers can cause slight increases in pressures, but there isn't any safety reason not to use 'em.

Some plated bullet companies recommend middle of the road jacketed data.

 

[Potatohead]

ive read that once you start seeing pressure signs with pistol, you're already well into over pressure.

 

[showmebob]

Potatohead:
Hodgdon only recommends .2 grain more for a Sierra JHP
Rainier's web site recommends lead loads in one place and jacketed loads in another place.
The magnum primer load was just starting to show very slight signs of increased pressure, not necessarily overpressure. (read you could see the difference between this load and all the others)

 

[Walkalong]

Plated bullets:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6195350&postcount=11


I haven't had any problem with Universal lighting off or burning cleanly, and I like it in .40 SOW with a 165 Gr jacketed bullet. Maybe that combination just isn't a good one.

Primers are not a good way to "read" pressure in pistol calibers, and not overly reliable in rifle calibers.

 

[Potatohead]

Potatohead:
Hodgdon only recommends .2 grain more for a Sierra JHP
Rainier's web site recommends lead loads in one place and jacketed loads in another place.
The magnum primer load was just starting to show very slight signs of increased pressure, not necessarily overpressure. (read you could see the difference between this load and all the others)

Right on. I was just sayin..

I wasnt really applying to your specific situation.

 

[cougar1717]

My experience with universal (40,38,357) is that it needs pressure to work well/burn cleanly. The starting loads are necessary, but are usually not accurate and leave a lot of partly burnt powder flakes all over the place. Mid to upper end plated data will typically work the best, but substituting a mag primer can create more pressure with a few less tenths (work it up, of course). Before Hodgdon published specific plated data, reloaders just used mid-range jacketed data (compare with Hodgdon's 180gr XTP data).

 

[ArchAngelCD]

What is the OAL on the rounds you built?
Are you crimping? How much crimp?
Which primers are you using?

 

[Dudedog]

Only problem with Universal I have/had is I can't find any.
Seemed ok with starting charges. (9mak, 9 luger,.45 APC) Cleaner than Unique across the board.


All with reg primers, Tula, CCI, Win

Bad (less than ideal) batch of primers maybe?
Old, poorly stored powder?