Unsettling encounter - am I being paranoid? (Long)

[Vern Humphrey]

I know of no law that says you can't call the police and say, "I think I'm being stalked."

Similarly, I know of no law that says you can't call the police and say, "I heard a woman scream and I think she's being attacked."

 

[silicosys4]

I know of no law that says you can't call the police and say, "I think I'm being stalked."

No, but in this case you would be wasting public resources and drawing police away from responding to legitimate complaints to take come take a report then explain to you what stalking actually is.

A guy you keep running into in a store one day isn't stalking you just because you don't like the way he's looking at you.

Kind of like the calls about "man with a gun" in open carry legal areas.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

No, but in this case you would be wasting public resources and drawing police away from responding to legitimate complaints to take come take a report then explain to you what stalking actually is.

And you know that how?

Would you say it takes less resources to respond to a call from someone who thinks he's being stalked, than it does to investigate the same person's murder?

 

[silicosys4]

And you know that how?

As per the OP's description, as far as I could tell the person in question's actions did NOT equate to stalking. Read post #50 and tell me how there was any "stalking" involved.

Would you say it takes less resources to respond to a call from someone who thinks he's being stalked, than it does to investigate the same person's murder?

I don't know, does it take less resources to respond to "a man with a gun" exercising their open carry rights, than it does to respond to the same person as an an active shooter? Does inventing in your mind a scenario of said open carrier becoming an active shooter justify overreacting and calling the police every time you see an open carrier? This is the same justification used by the hysterical soccer moms that call in to report someone doing absolutely nothing illegal...."I saw someone doing something I don't like, I had no control over them, and thought it was scary!"

Regardless, that's a red herring argument.

 

[DHJenkins]

Sounds shady to me. Unfortunately (and I hate to add fuel to the fire), if you live in NC, your license plate info is not private.

 

[gp911]

He was thinking of doing _something_ but couldn't come up with what to do, so he left. He may have been a simple flasher wanting to flash your wife but he couldn't get the space to do so. Your life may not have been endangered but you will never know. That sketchy behavior came up on your radar and addressing it was the right thing to do. I think you did well.

 

[Jeff22]

Situational awareness

Hey, something was going on. You alerted to weird behavior. His unusual behavior may or may not have had anything to do with you. We'll probably never know.

The central premise of Gavin deBecker's book The Gift of Fear is to pay attention to subconscious cues. Your subconscious picks up something that seems out of the ordinary. You may not be able to articulate what it is or put that cue in context, but something isn't right. So at least be aware & watchful.

Don't over react but don't totally under react either.

 

[CornCod]

I would not call the police in the situation outlined above, you would be wasting their time. However, I would trust my gut instincts and increase my level of caution and awareness.

 

[khegglie]

Imaging getting pulled over by the police and face planted because some dude in the store was suspicious while you were looking for the socks they didn't have there.

 

[vito]

As I read the OP, one thought that I had was that he might have been in touch with his comrades back at your home. The phone use might have been a ruse, or he might have been telling his friends that their burglary could proceed because you and your wife were still in the store. But in any case, I agree that this must have been a very uncomfortable situation. I know that if this happened to me I would be doubly glad that I was carrying, just in case.

 

[Gun Master]

Cheking Home, etc.

Did you check your door locks and jams, windows, other points of potential entry, and belongings, as indicated in above posting?

 

[TarDevil]

Did you check your door locks and jams, windows, other points of potential entry, and belongings, as indicated in above posting?

Indeed we did. In addition, some additional firearms were relocated to more "convenient" locations.

 

[AKElroy]

To the OP, is it possible you had a traffic related event with him before pulling in? Is it possible he was cut-off and was pondering some form of retribution?

Was he dressed like a banger/gang thug? Could have been some initiation thing.

Are you sure he was alone in the car? If he was on cell with eyes on you, was someone possibly outside trying to get into your car?

If you live nearby, did you ensure your house was sound, with no signs of break-in? Like the question above, this could have been crooks working in tandem.

Lastly, could it be you just locked eyes, and he was equally perplexed over why you were staring at him? It happens.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

Why are people so shy to call the police these days?

Why leave the store?

Why not tell the store management?

Tell the store manager. If that doesn't get results, call the police. Tell them there is a man you don't know acting very suspiciously and he keeps staring at you. Then stay in the store. It's a public location with witnesses and probably cameras.

If the spidey sense is tingling, don't relocate to a less secure, less populated, less controllable location. Seek help.

 

[TarDevil]

To the OP, is it possible you had a traffic related event with him before pulling in? Is it possible he was cut-off and was pondering some form of retribution?

Normally, that would be my first suspicion.

My wife is nearly perfect.. really. If there's one thing about her that will give me an early heart attack it's her driving. This time, however, we pulled out of a restaurant parking lot onto the road with a sizable distance between us and any other car. Quarter mile later we pulled into CVS and nothing made my blood pressure rise.

Was he dressed like a banger/gang thug? Could have been some initiation thing.

In fact, he was dressed and groomed well.

Are you sure he was alone in the car? If he was on cell with eyes on you, was someone possibly outside trying to get into your car?

Unless someone was lying in the floor of the back seat (difficult in a Saturn sport coupe), he was alone.

If you live nearby, did you ensure your house was sound, with no signs of break-in? Like the question above, this could have been crooks working in tandem

Everything good at home. In addition, my neighbor and I (we shoot together occasionally) have an understanding and are familiar with typical visitors and we both give each other a heads up if something looks amiss. I regularly got calls from him when my nephew was living with us and had a new friend over while we were out of town.

Lastly, could it be you just locked eyes, and he was equally perplexed over why you were staring at him? It happens.

Really don't think so. Dunno if you had a chance read the entire thread, but my initial suspicions were triggered before he and I "Locked eyes."

Why are people so shy to call the police these days?
Why not tell the store management?
Tell the store manager. If that doesn't get results, call the police. Tell them there is a man you don't know acting very suspiciously and he keeps staring at you. Then stay in the store. It's a public location with witnesses and probably cameras.
If the spidey sense is tingling, don't relocate to a less secure, less populated, less controllable location. Seek help.

I think this has been covered... there's nothing he did illegal. Calling police or even alerting the store manager could have resulted in a harassment problem on me... or worse.

Why leave the store?

We left the store when he re-entered... into a rather busy parking lot adjacent to a busy road. Anything he did at that point would have been in front of more witnesses than in the store. When we drove away, we went to an even busier convenience store across the street.
Additionally, I could keep an eye on him better out of the store and if he followed me I had options to draw him toward the police station, just several blocks away.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

I think this has been covered... there's nothing he did illegal. Calling police or even alerting the store manager could have resulted in a harassment problem on me... or worse.

Nonsense. Police get calls all the time for people acting strangely that haven't committed an obvious crime. Any police officer will tell you that. As a former police officer, I am telling you that.

The above post that implied that you may yourself have been guilty of stalking for keeping an eye on a person behaving oddly is pure poppycock. It is the sort of legal advice you find on free internet forums that helps keep lawyers in business. silicosys4 underlined parts of the definition of the phrase "Course of Conduct" but forgot the actual offense later in the excerpt has conditions that need to be met.

"(c) Offense. -- A defendant is guilty of stalking if the defendant willfully on more than one occasion harasses another person without legal purpose or willfully engages in a course of conduct directed at a specific person without legal purpose and the defendant knows or should know that the harassment or the course of conduct would cause a reasonable person to do any of the following:

(1) Fear for the person's safety or the safety of the person's immediate family or close personal associates.

(2) Suffer substantial emotional distress by placing that person in fear of death, bodily injury, or continued harassment."

The limited act keeping an eye on a person acting suspiciously, while you are in their proximity due to entirely legal activities does not meet that definition under any stretch.

We left the store when he re-entered... into a rather busy parking lot adjacent to a busy road. Anything he did at that point would have been in front of more witnesses than in the store. When we drove away, we went to an even busier convenience store across the street.
Additionally, I could keep an eye on him better out of the store and if he followed me I had options to draw him toward the police station, just several blocks away.

You would be amazed at how few people driving on a busy street notice anything other than the car directly in front of them.

How much control can you assert over the situation outside the store? Do you have a means to prevent him from using his vehicle to attack you? Can you recognize and prevent secondary threats possible from people he was on the phone with?

 

[Zaydok Allen]

That sounds creepy. I would have been paying close attention too. I think it is possible he was planning to rob you, or was a little nutty. I actually think

It's possible...possible, that he 'made' you carrying and got spooked, perhaps trying to notify authorities.

might be the case. If he happened to be high, seeing someone with a firearm would probably scare the hell out of him, or maybe make him think you were a cop.

I know a guy who went to a grocery store on acid with some friends (not me). My buddy told me he thought it was hilarious to hide in the greeting card area with rotating card racks, and peek out at people while laughing. Then when he heard his friend yelling on the other side of the store he went running only to find his friend in the produce area standing on top of the fruit display yelling out "I HAVE THE BIGGEST APPLE IN THIS (profanity)ing STORE!!!!"

That's when they realized it was time to leave. As they walked out the door, the store manager came running up and yelled "HEY!" They turned around and the manager said "You guys are on acid aren't you?" They couldn't hold it together and all nodded and confirmed. The manager just responded "Me too."

They all laughed and went about their day. My point is folks do weird stuff when stoned in public, and it's possible the guy you encountered was just messed up. BUT, it sounds like you acted appropriately, and I'd keep a close eye on your house for any fishy activity. It's possible you are being cased.

Sounds like you did the right thing.

 

[TarDevil]

You would be amazed at how few people driving on a busy street notice anything other than the car directly in front of them.

Which is why we drove 50 yards across the street to the much busier convenience store while he was standing near the door of the drug store. We had the advantage of already being in our car and able to drive away before he could get in his. If you remember my OP, I was unable to keep him in sight in the store.

How much control can you assert over the situation outside the store?

Pulling up to the convenience store gave us the advantage of watching what he did when he got back in his car. If he drove to the convenience store, the phone was in my wife's hand to call 911, my gun was in my right hand. I could NOT have drawn my gun in the drug store.

Do you have a means to prevent him from using his vehicle to attack you?

Again, why we went 50 yards and stopped before he could get in his car.

Can you recognize and prevent secondary threats possible from people he was on the phone with?

As much as anyone. We had already considered he was phoning someone. We stayed at the convenience store until he was out of sight. In post #12 I said we then drove a short distance to another well populated store parking lot to see if any vehicle followed. Repeated several times.

You may think different, but I'm convinced I handled this as well as possible. And to clarify the option of calling the police at that point, I can get that resolved this evening with a call the the Assistant DA in my county... then we'll both know.

 

[silicosys4]

Nonsense. Police get calls all the time for people acting strangely that haven't committed an obvious crime. Any police officer will tell you that. As a former police officer, I am telling you that.

The above post that implied that you may yourself have been guilty of stalking for keeping an eye on a person behaving oddly is pure poppycock. It is the sort of legal advice you find on free internet forums that helps keep lawyers in business. silicosys4 underlined parts of the definition of the phrase "Course of Conduct" but forgot the actual offense later in the excerpt has conditions that need to be met.

"(c) Offense. -- A defendant is guilty of stalking if the defendant willfully on more than one occasion harasses another person without legal purpose or willfully engages in a course of conduct directed at a specific person without legal purpose and the defendant knows or should know that the harassment or the course of conduct would cause a reasonable person to do any of the following:

(1) Fear for the person's safety or the safety of the person's immediate family or close personal associates.

(2) Suffer substantial emotional distress by placing that person in fear of death, bodily injury, or continued harassment."

The limited act keeping an eye on a person acting suspiciously, while you are in their proximity due to entirely legal activities does not meet that definition under any stretch.



You would be amazed at how few people driving on a busy street notice anything other than the car directly in front of them.

How much control can you assert over the situation outside the store? Do you have a means to prevent him from using his vehicle to attack you? Can you recognize and prevent secondary threats possible from people he was on the phone with?

"vehicle to attack you"?
"secondary threats"?
Where the heck do you see any evidence of any of this?


I'm just going to say it.

Some people seem to need to fantasize about drastic, over the top scenario's just like this in order to justify the paranoia that they feel about other people who are nonthreatening but "tickle" the hairs on the back of their neck for whatever reason.
Vigilance is one thing.
Inventing incredibly unlikely scenario's in one's mind in order to justify your paranoia is another
This thread has had some pretty antisocial tin-hat moments in which people feel the need to invent various situations in their mind in which the OP's nervousness would have been justified.

I think at this point its become pretty obvious to me that the "well dressed hispanic" man in question was just going about their business albeit in a manner you were not comfortable with and yes, as the op further clarifies the situation, IMO at this point any further worry without provocation is paranoia on the OP's part, fueled by three pages of "he was a killer for sure, you barely escaped with your life.

As for my reference to NC's statute concerning stalking,
If the "suspect" was potentially "stalking" the op by observing him as was suggested, then the OP was committing exactly the same acts to the "suspect". That was my point. They are each equally guilty of creeping the other out.

Edit: OP, if I read you correctly you were at condition red with your gun in your hand because you were creeped out that he was staring?
Absent of anything anywhere near an actual threat of any kind, I'd say
Yea, that's a bit paranoid.

 

[TarDevil]

If he happened to be high, seeing someone with a firearm would probably scare the hell out of him, or maybe make him think you were a cop.

I've considered that he might have made my gun when he first entered the store and said "Excuse me" in close proximity. Still uncomfortable with the fact he pulled in beside us and stayed in his car until we went in the store.

I'm extremely conscientious about printing or making movements that might reveal my gun. On that day my LC9s was in a DeSantis IWB holster under an oversize shirt untucked.

The one place he MIGHT have made the gun was in the restaurant where we ate. Possibly while I was sitting, the chair may have pressed against my shirt and the gun printed. He then may have kept his distance and followed us to the drug store. Really, other than being on drugs I can't think of anything else.

IF he called the police and reported MWG and gave them my license number, it's highly probable that the police knew us and didn't pursue anything, just chalked it up to an overly cautious person. Otherwise, I would think at some point the police would have seen our car (matching his description and tags) and checked us out.

 

[TarDevil]

Some people seem to need to fantasize about drastic, over the top scenario's just like this in order to justify the paranoia that they feel about other people who are nonthreatening but "tickle" the hairs on the back of their neck for whatever reason.

I respect your opinion... but I'll reiterate one more time;
I'm not by nature a paranoid person. I've had perhaps ONCE in my life a situation like this that spooked me and the last thing I want is trouble with anyone. I have no issues with anyone in my community. It actually takes a lot to get me wired.

Otherwise, thank you for your input.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

If he drove to the convenience store, the phone was in my wife's hand to call 911, my gun was in my right hand. I could NOT have drawn my gun in the drug store.

Sigh... that's just...

Okay, look. This will be my last post in this because we clearly are just going to but heads.

It's clear your mindset was "how do I win this fight when it happens", not "how do I not get in this fight"

I want you to stop and think real hard about what you have written, and I hope it opens your eyes.

Wife asks me, "Call the police?"
"He's done nothing illegal... yet."

my gun was in my right hand.

It wasn't important enough to call the police... but you've got your gun out.

And to clarify the option of calling the police at that point, I can get that resolved this evening with a call the the Assistant DA in my county... then we'll both know.

Calling the police this evening would have helped how with a potential situation then? Or are you just saying that calling the police now will maybe cause them to track the guy down and what? Nothing. If they had an opportunity to do a stop and talk when the event was happening, they may have cued into him being EPD or in the process of a criminal event or maybe just discovered that you look like someone he knew from an old job. Now? Nothing most likely. The police probably won't bother with a "guy acting suspiciously two days ago" call.

Look, this is basic S&T. If you are in a public and controlled place, don't leave it unless you must. "must" tends to mean it's on fire or otherwise not survivable. You might just be walking into an ambush if you do. If you control the ground, don't give it up. Stand up at the front of the store with the cashier. Have them call the police. Don't leave. The attacker is less likely to try something in the environment of your choosing with people around and employees on the phone with the police. Once you go out the front door, you give up every advantage you had.

Remember, the goal isn't to win the gunfight. It's to never get into the gunfight.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I'm extremely conscientious about printing or making movements that might reveal my gun.

Yeah I kind of figured. I've always gotten the impression you are a conscientious carrier.

Still uncomfortable with the fact he pulled in beside us and stayed in his car until we went in the store.

You said head down in your OP. It's possible he was texting and you didn't see the phone. What was the topic though? That's the question I suppose.

The one place he MIGHT have made the gun was in the restaurant where we ate. Possibly while I was sitting, the chair may have pressed against my shirt and the gun printed. He then may have kept his distance and followed us to the drug store. Really, other than being on drugs I can't think of anything else.

Now you're kind of getting into a lot of "mays", and "mights". In short, it sounds fishy to me too man, and I think paying attention and going on alert was the correct reaction. Your Spidey sense tingled, and you were on the look out.

It isn't paranoia, it's just vigilance. I think calling the cops would have been a little unwarranted. Now if he had deliberately followed you to the other store, then I maybe would have called, or simply driven to the police department right then and there.

It may have been something, or total weird coincidence, and nothing at all. He may have gone home and said "Honey, you should have seen the dude staring at me at the store. He made me so nervous I left without buying what I was there for....... and now we have no toilet paper."

You know I've gone into stores before, not found what I've been looking for that should have been there, and left the store without buying a substitute simply out of anger. If I'm in that kind of a bad mood, then everything makes me mad, including the guy who keeps staring at me. You said he was on his phone? Maybe he was fighting with his significant other, and you watching him made him mad, so he responded in kind.

Like I said. Keep an eye out. I think your gut is the best judge of the situation, as none of us were there to observe. I hope you never find out what the cause of the weird behavior was, because that means bad things are going down.

 

[TarDevil]

Remember, the goal isn't to win the gunfight. It's to never get into the gunfight.

I don't know what you're reading, but EVERYTHING I did was to get away from that guy.

(And this is pretty good evidence you aren't reading what I post)... I didn't say "call the police tonight." I said I'd call the assistant DA to clarify the pros and cons of reporting a stalker.

 

[Ohio Gun Guy]

I think you did fine!