Unusual vintage revolver

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HisSoldier

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This Easter weekend the 1990's 2 hour gunsmoke movie opened with an outlaw's checking his unusual revolver. He grabbed the barrel and twisted it a quarter turn to the left (Anti-clockwise) which allowed the barrel group to slide forward, and the cylinder's star ejected the shells.
I tried finding out more about it using different search strings but could not. Does anyone here know what it was? It's just academic for me, but maybe Forgotten weapons made a video about it.
Thanks,
 
One of the greatest handguns of the old west..

Turn down your volume before playing, I like the song but it is loud..





Here is a bit of that movie from Youtube.. The pistol is right at the beginning...






Now I so dislike saying anything negative about Gunsmoke, My Grandmother would snatch me bald if I did...But for the guy to have opened a Merwin Hulbert like that.. It had to be totally empty.
 
Yes it was empty, and my memory played tricks on me in just a few minutes time! I watched it over, the guy turned the barrel clockwise, and there was no star extractor. Makes me feel like my memory is already deteriorating. Anyway, I like the gun, and maybe I'll look for one for my collection. Thanks a lot for the quick responses again.
 
Yes it was empty, and my memory played tricks on me in just a few minutes time! I watched it over, the guy turned the barrel clockwise, and there was no star extractor.

You kinda sorta did see the "star extractor" on it.. The Rim on the back of the frame where the cylinder closes up on.. Well That is the extractor... ha ha, it just is not a star and it only extracts the spent shells.. Pretty magical how it can tell spent shells from live one.. All before computers :).
 
Galand revolvers are really interesting as well.

I believe Driftwood Johnson has a Merwin Hulbert. He'll likely be along in a bit with a bunch of good pictures.
 
Yes it was empty, and my memory played tricks on me in just a few minutes time! I watched it over, the guy turned the barrel clockwise, and there was no star extractor. Makes me feel like my memory is already deteriorating.
As long as you don't forget what you were saying before the end of the sentence, you're I think we'll have pizza for dinner.
 
Driftwood Johnson will hopefully chime in soon, with pictures and explanations.

I always enjoy his excellent posts. :)
 
Howdy

Did somebody say Merwin Hulbert?

The one in the video with James Arness is the same model as this one. An open top Pocket Army. Don't be confused by the name Pocket Army, these were big belt pistols. Notice the nasty Skull Crusher on the bottom of the grip. The one in the video has some typical Merwin Hulbert engraving on the cylinder between the flutes. Merwin Hulbert engraving was very simple, nothing fancy. Notice the unusual shape of the cylinder flutes, they are called Scoop Flutes. And yes, clearly the one in the video was unloaded when he opened it, or the cartridges would have been extracted. And when a Merwin is open, if you spin the cylinder, there is no ratchety clicking sound. The cylinder simply spins silently. Hollywood directors always seem to add stuff which is incorrect.

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The 3d Video posted is pretty much correct. Very few realize that although you could dump all the empties out of a MH by pulling the barrel and cylinder forward, it has to be reloaded one chamber at a time through a loading gate, not much different than a Colt.

To open it up, you push the button in front of the trigger guard back.

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Then you rotate the barrel/cylinder assembly 90 degrees and pull them forward.

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There is an Extractor Ring mounted in the recoil shield. It captures the rims of the rounds in the cylinder, so when the cylinder is pulled forward, the rounds stay stationary.

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If you watch the 3D video, you will see that fired brass will fall clear, because they are shorter, while unfired rounds will not fall out, because the bullets are still in the chamber. The MH was designed this way, the cylinder only rode forward enough for empty brass to fall out. I have found that in actual practice, it usually does not work that way. The rounds retained in the cylinder usually jiggle enough that the cylinder cannot be closed again unless they are manually jiggled back to line up with the chambers.

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Collectors go on and on about how the Merwin Hulbert was the most technically advanced revolver in the Old West. But most are not aware that because of the location of the Extractor Ring it is physically impossible to reload with the cylinder open. The gun has to be closed up, and reloaded one chamber at a time through a loading gate, not much different than a Colt. Interestingly enough, because of the position of the loading gate, you reload a MH by loading two, skipping one, and loading three more. With a Colt you load one, skip one, and load four more.

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With a Smith and Wesson Top Break, you break it open, automatically ejecting the empties, and then reload while it is still open. Much more efficient than the Merwin Hulbert system.

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Why did Joseph Merwin come up with the bizarre design he did? Because at the time S&W controlled all the patents that made a Top Break revolver possible. So if he wanted to design a revolver that was not a copy of a Colt, he had to come up with a new idea.



Yes, there is a video on Forgotten Weapons about Merwin Hulberts. As much as I respect Ian (and I respect him a great deal) he also thinks they are 'the Best revolver of the Frontier Era'. Ian talks about how the unfired rounds will be retained by the cylinder, but I doubt he has ever actually fired one, and experienced how the unfired rounds jiggle around, making it difficult to close the cylinder again without physically jiggling them back in line with the chambers. And Ian makes a big deal about how precisely Merwin Hulberts were made. I am lucky enough to have four of them. I have been inside each of them, and I assure you there is nothing more precise about a Merwin Hulbert than anything Smith and Wesson was doing at the same time. If they had wanted to, S&W could have duplicated the unusual rotating mechanism of the MH, but they did not need to because they were happily making Top Breaks that could be unloaded AND reloaded faster than a Merwin Hulbert.






Don't get me wrong, shooting an old Merwin Hulbert is great fun. They are just not all that the myths about them claim.

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Howdy Again

Just for fun, here are a few photos from movies featuring Merwin Hulberts.

This one is from a corny western from 1935 called Born to Battle. The Merwin Hulbert is the same as my open top Pocket Army.

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Here are a couple of shots of Randy Quaid with a Frontier model Merwin Hulbert in the Long Riders. Notice it has a top strap.

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Similar to these. These have both been extensively rebuilt by a friend of mine. Notice the extra tall front sight on the one in the bottom of the photo. Definitely not the original front sight.

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This is the 4th Merwin I am lucky enough to own. A double action pocket model chambered for the 38 Merwin and Hulbert cartridge.

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Notice the patented folding hammer spur.

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A five shooter, it breaks open just like any other Merwin.

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And just like any other Mewin Hulbert revolver, it has to be loaded one round at a time through the loading gate. That is a 38 S&W round, dimensionally very similar to the 38 MH round.

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This one definitely is a pocket model, when compared to my Pocket Army. The folding hammer spur was so it would not get tangled in fabric drawing it from a pocket.

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Howdy Again
This is the 4th Merwin I am lucky enough to own. A double action pocket model chambered for the 38 Merwin and Hulbert cartridge.

View attachment 908556




Notice the patented folding hammer spur.

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View attachment 908558




A five shooter, it breaks open just like any other Merwin.

View attachment 908559

And just like any other Mewin Hulbert revolver, it has to be loaded one round at a time through the loading gate. That is a 38 S&W round, dimensionally very similar to the 38 MH round.

View attachment 908560

This one definitely is a pocket model, when compared to my Pocket Army. The folding hammer spur was so it would not get tangled in fabric drawing it from a pocket.

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I too have a sister .38 4th model like yours. I shot factory .38 S&W in it just fine in the 80s thru the middle 90s when I locked it up in a collection of vintage top breaks . I was all ways looking for a .44-40 Top Strap final Pocket model ..
 
I thought the Pocket Army as originally sold had a replacement shorter barrel with it and thus the name.

One barrel for work and one for going to town as it were.

-kBob
 
Great info, Driftwood!
I am guessing if you wanted to remove live cartridges you would have to get them out one at a time through the loading port?
 
I thought the Pocket Army as originally sold had a replacement shorter barrel with it and thus the name.

One barrel for work and one for going to town as it were.

Howdy Again

That is unclear to me. According to Art Phelps in his book The Story of Merwin Hulbert & Co. Firearms, the Pocket Army model first appeared approximately 1880. Available barrel lengths were 3 1/2" and 7". Mine has the 7" barrel. Phelps does not state which barrel length came first, or which one was made in greater numbers, so I assume both barrel lengths were available from the beginning. The Pocket Army went through 3 separate model changes. Since it appeared at the same time as the Frontier 2nd Model, with most of the same details, other than the Skull Crusher grip, Phelps lists the first Pocket Army as 2nd Model. That is what mine is. Typical of this model was the open top design with Scoop flutes on the cylinder. This model was available chambered for 44 M&H, 44 Russian, and 44-40.

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Mine is chambered for 44-40. This is the marking on the frame denoting the cartridge the gun is chambered for. CALIBRE WINCHESTER 1873 means it was chambered for the 44-40 cartridge, the most common chambereing for the Winchester Model 1873 rifle.

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A 3rd Model Pocket Army appeared around 1883. The 3rd Model had a top strap, and the Scoop flutes were gone, replaced by more conventional cylinder flutes. Sorry, I don't have one to show you. A double action version was also available with the 3rd model Pocket Army. I see no change in the notation about barrel lengths, so I assume 3 1/2" and 7" barrels were still standard.

A 4th Model became in 1887. The 4th Model differed from the 3rd Model only in that the barrel had a rib on top. Phelps states a 5 1/2" barrel was available for the 4th Model, he states that 7" barrels were very rare and 3 1/2" barrels were extremely rare.

Pocket Army revolvers coming from the factory with 2 barrels were rare. Phelps shows a photo of a 3rd Model Pocket Army that came from the factory with a 3 1/2" barrel as well as a 7" barrel. He also shows a 'very rare' 4th Model Pocket Army with a 3 1/2" barrel as well as a 7" barrel.

So having two barrels, one for work and one for town, was probably quite rare.

Interestingly enough, in the back of the book are reprints of Merwin Hulbert catalogs. A reprint of the John P Lovell, Boston Mass, catalog of 1890 shows a 44-40 Pocket Army 3rd Model with a 3 1/2" barrel. It also states that extra barrels were available for $4. The price of the revolver with one barrel was $13.

I am not sure when Merwin Hulbert revolvers ceased being produced. Wikipedia says 1897. I have not found a specific date in the Phelps book. Merwin Hulbert revolvers were actually manufactured by Hopkins and Allen in Norwich CT. Phelps states Merwin Hulbert went into receivership 1880 - 1881. This was because of several bad investments, the company lost $100,000 when the Evans Rifle Company, which it had bought, went into bankruptcy, and Phelps states the Russian government did not pay for 'three shiploads' of guns. He does not state how many actual guns were in the three shiploads.

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I am guessing if you wanted to remove live cartridges you would have to get them out one at a time through the loading port?

Great question. I have never tried removing live rounds, I always load five and shoot all five. But in the interest of science I just loaded some dummy rounds, and yes, they must be unloaded one round at a time through the loading port. Unlike a Colt, there is no ejector under the barrel, so if my Black Powder rounds made the chambers sticky I would probably have to use a stick to poke out unfired rounds.

Or, one could pull the cylinder and barrel completely off the frame and dump out live rounds that way. To pull the barrel and cylinder from the frame, the lever on the side of the barrel is depressed and the barrel and cylinder can be slid off the frame.

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I learned a long time ago one has to be careful pulling the barrel and cylinder off the frame. The cylinder is retained by the barrel by means of a lip seated in a semi-circular groove in the underside of the barrel.

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If one is not careful, the barrel can fall onto the ground. No, it has not happened to me, I was forewarned about this and am always very careful pulling the barrel and cylinder off of a MH.

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But this would be another, although inconvenient, way to remove live rounds. Probably not very useful during a gunfight, but who is going to unload live rounds during a gunfight?

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