Update: Border Patrol, 20 Years

[Cosmoline]

So as you can clearly see, the situation on the The US/Mexico border is not the same as the situation Iraq/Syria border.

Yeah, there's a huge difference. We've taken serious steps to secure the Iraq/Syria border.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I'm with both Cosmoline and crazed_ss.

Should our BP agents be authorized to use deadly force in the prevention of invasion? Absolutely. If the invader knows the potential consequences of his actions and proceeds, he deserves what he gets. Illegals from Mexico are not refugees fleeing from a tyrannical state; they are criminals with no regard for US law; they achieve this status the minute they violate our immigration laws by crossing the border.

Should the BP agents be excused for shooting a man who was running away from the border and back into Mexico? Hell no. He's no longer a threat or an invader. He's Mexico's problem at that point. Iraq was cited earlier as an example; Our soldiers are not allowed to shoot people running back away from the border.

Should these BP agents have been prosecuted? Most definitely. Even if he had not been running away, they are not authorized to use dealy force except in self defense. Until they are authorized to use dealy force to prevent invasion and until there are big signs at the border saying that they are, shooting the invader is a crime. There must a punishment established for breaking a law before one can be punished for breaking it, and the information regarding that law and the punishment need to be clearly established and available to everyone whom it may concern.

How would you like to get a ticket for driving with no registration and being thrown in prison for 20 years over it when there was absolutely NO WAY you could have known the punishment was so severe?

 

[SalTx]

I tell you, that immigration work is nasty stuff..if you're an American at heart it makes you puke your guts out about what goes on..can't trust your own people, that's who turned them in..other officers with relations across the border. But they did screw up, should have been better shots.

 

[Car Knocker]

can't trust your own people, that's who turned them in..

At least someone knows right from wrong and acted accordingly.

 

[wingman]

At least someone knows right from wrong and acted accordingly.

Have not been to the border area much have you.

 

[STAGE 2]

From what I've seen on the news from both the agents and their atty, and the prosecutor, I don't see why people are so supportive over the drug runner.

The only thing the officers did wrong in this case was to not report the incident. This guy came into the country illegally with a van full of 800 lbs of marijuana (which was withheld from the jury BTW). Don't think a guy with a load like that isn't going to carry a gun

Sure the agents deserve punishment, but punish them for what was wrong (not report the shooting) not for what wasn't ( shooting an illegal narco traficante who presumably had a gun).

 

[jeep-2]

I would rather have 500,000 illegals here than have cops like those 2 on the job. From where i sit, they would have shot anyone and tried to cover it up if they could and how many other crimes have they covered up, was their bank accounts cked and how was their life styles?

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

Let's Keep This In Perspective

I would rather have 500,000 illegals here than have cops like those 2 on the job. From where i sit, they would have shot anyone and tried to cover it up if they could and how many other crimes have they covered up, was their bank accounts cked and how was their life styles?

They are not nor were they cops. They were Border Patrol Agents. They were part of our national defense, not domestic law enforcement. There is a big difference.

Woody

There is perspective and there is pretense. No amount of bombast or emotion can truthfully equate the two. One does not add validity to the other. Bombast and emotion added to pretense does not equal perspective. Reason, fact, and logic? That's a different matter. That will net you perspective every time. B.E.Wood

 

[CannibalCrowley]

They are not nor were they cops. They were Border Patrol Agents. They were part of our national defense, not domestic law enforcement. There is a big difference.

Well apparently the Border Patrol disagrees with you because they often refer to themselves as a part of "law enforcement" not "national defense".

Example: U.S. Customs and Border Protection is America’s largest uniformed law enforcement organization and is dedicated to providing homeland security by securing our borders.

http://www.customs.gov/xp/cgov/border_security/antiterror_initiatives/border_security_overview.xml

 

[crazed_ss]

I don't see why people are so supportive over the drug runner.

Just because people arent ready to give the agents a pass, doesnt mean they're supportive of a drug runner.. and they did a little more than not report the shooting. The one guy collected up and disposed of shell casings.

Honestly, what do you think would happen if you were involved in a shooting and disposed of shell casings? What do you think the jury would think?

Also.. BP guys are not soldiers at war. They're federal LEOs.

 

[nemoaz]

Big difference: The US/Mexico border is not the Iraq/Syria border.
Regardless of what people on THR tell you, we are not at war with Mexico.

You've obviously never looked down the barrel of a Mexican Army heavy machinegun providing security for a dope load. I know people that have.

Just because you have your eyes closed doesn't mean it isn't happening... almost every day. And just because Democrips want new voters and Republicants want cheap illiterate labor doesn't mean they aren't invading.

BTW, being at war isn't the requirement for getting your arse shot if you try to invade a country. Try driving a speed boat past the Coast Guard and see what happens. For that matter, try running past a French border station.

Just because some slobbering ignorant California liberals think 20-30 million foreigners the right to invade so they can have a better life for their mota doesn't mean it's true.

 

[nemoaz]

I understand the Job most immigration officers do is not easy. But if all was as described they had no right to shoot this guy even if he had 3 truck loads of any drug unless he did any of the above.

What you mean to say is if all occurred the way the lying dirtbag drugsmuggler said.... then they had no right to shoot they guy. What the agents said was that they shot at the drug smuggler because he pointed a weapon at them. They also didn't believe they hit him. They then failed to report the shooting AT THE URGING OF THEIR SUPERVISOR because no one wanted to spend the next year or two on administrative duties carrying a rubber gun while the investigation took place. Right? No. Lazy? At least. Lying? I don't know. And neither do you. Their supervisor supported that story. Believe a piece of shyte career felon drug smuggler. Never.

What's even more funny is that while these guys rot in jail and their wife and children are harrassed by the local drug smugglers... and starve, the dirtbag agent who has "friends and family" in the drug cartel gets applauded by the govt.

Alberto Gonzalez... Janet Reno.... no difference in my book.

 

[nemoaz]

No, we're taking the word of the officers themselves when they stated that the man allegedly shot was demonstrably not armed,

That is an outright lie. You obviously know nothing of the case.

 

[nemoaz]

They did not know that he was trafficing marijuana until after the fact.

Really? They already ran the plate and knew it had previously been used to smuggle drugs. And quite frankly, once you see a vehicle in the desert and don't see thirty heads in the back, there is only one other option.

 

[nemoaz]

can't trust your own people, that's who turned them in..
At least someone knows right from wrong and acted accordingly.

Yeah... I got this ahhhhhhhh..... amigo.... in Mejico.... he madre say la Migra shot him in the culo. How do I know him? Why do you ask?

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

this isn't supported

"What you mean to say is if all occurred the way the lying dirtbag drugsmuggler said.... then they had no right to shoot they guy. What the agents said was that they shot at the drug smuggler because he pointed a weapon at them. They also didn't believe they hit him. They then
failed to report the shooting AT THE URGING OF THEIR SUPERVISOR because no one wanted to spend the next year or two on administrative duties carrying a rubber gun while the investigation took place. Right? No. Lazy? At least. Lying? I don't know. And neither do you. Their supervisor supported that story. Believe a piece of shyte career felon drug smuggler. Never. "

even by the 2 agents themselves story. they made a bad series of mistakes. and got turned on by theor fellow agents. do they deserve that much time? heck no. but were surely not innocent

 

[STAGE 2]

Honestly, what do you think would happen if you were involved in a shooting and disposed of shell casings? What do you think the jury would think?

I would hope I would hire a good enough attorney to show that my only wrong was not reporting and policing up my brass.

There hasnt been any evidence that shows these two agents did anything wrong up until the time they decided not to follw post shoot procedure.

They should face whatever punishment that merits, but not for a good shoot.

 

[bg]

Illegal immigration is not a crime punishable by death. And even if it were, it wouldnt be up to LEOs, Federal Agents, or private citizens to carry out such punishment.

Should be.

 

[crazed_ss]

Just because some slobbering ignorant California liberals think 20-30 million foreigners the right to invade so they can have a better life for their mota doesn't mean it's true.

Nice strawman.. let me try!

Just because a bunch of backwoods, racist redneck gun owners think deporting 20-30 million people and murdering women and children who try to cross the border is a good idea, doesnt mean it is a good idea.

 

[crazed_ss]

Illegal immigration is not a crime punishable by death. And even if it were, it wouldnt be up to LEOs, Federal Agents, or private citizens to carry out such punishment.

Should be.

Ok, so it should be OK for LEOs to perform summary executions?

Ok.. wow.... guess you got me there.

 

[nemoaz]

>>Just because a bunch of backwoods, racist redneck gun owners think deporting 20-30 million people and murdering women and children who try to cross the border is a good idea, doesnt mean it is a good idea.

You're right. Deporting ever damn one of them would be a good idea. But 20-30 million would be a good start.

And it's not a strawman. You need to some research and learn to use your terms correctly.

 

[crazed_ss]

And it's not a strawman.

A straw man argument is a logical fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position

This is how you stated the "opposition's" argument:

Just because some slobbering ignorant California liberals think 20-30 million foreigners the right to invade so they can have a better life for their mota doesn't mean it's true.

I also see an ad hominem attack or two in there also. It seems you're the one who needs to do some research. Here's a start.. http://atheism.about.com/od/criticalthinking/Critical_Thinking_Using_Logic_and_Reason.htm

 

[nemoaz]

even by the 2 agents themselves story. they made a bad series of mistakes. and got turned on by theor fellow agents. do they deserve that much time? heck no. but were surely not innocent

They did not get turned in by there fellow agent who was present or knew anything about it. They got turned in by an agent almost a thousand miles away who had a "friend" who is a drug dealer. He claims he didn't know the guy was a drug smuggler.... right.

As to your other assertions, you have no idea what you are talking about. They agents NEVER said the guy was unarmed. NONE of the agents there said he was unarmed. ALL OF THE AGENTS WHO SHOT SAID HE WAS ARMED. Do you really think these drug cartels load up hundreds of thousands of dollars worth drugs and send a the driver with no protection? (Sorry, I don't know the value. Maybe some of you do.) Since the drugsmuggling piece of excrement ran into Mexico to the waiting drugdealing comrades, he lost the opportunity to prove he wasn't armed. The dungpile's word against the word of all the agents there. And a jury in south Texas, about many of whom were illegal aliens at one point and most of whom hate la migra, found him guilty. What do you expect in Texico?

Same "Prosecutor" indicted a local cop claiming that he shot a woman and has a medical expert claiming that the bullet entered her lip and exited the lip in one small hole. The medics thought she probably got kicked by the other illegal aliens as they tried to jump out of the vehicle. http://www.freegilmer.com/

 

[nemoaz]

No thanks, SS. I have a doctorate with much training in debate.

Y soy el jefe de jefes. El gran chingon.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

neomaz

you might wanna read the transcripts and not from a blog at best you are confused . at worst?!... welll...