Upgrading a M&P15?

[ZGunner]

My LGS happened to have a slightly used S&W M&P on the shelf the other day. So I made them a deal, traded my dusty Stag lower, a Kel-Tec PF9 that I never shoot and some cash. I feel good about the deal as I now I have an operational AR as opposed to waiting for a BCM upper to come in stock and then hunt down a BCG.

I know the following is very opinion based and that's ok, I like hearing them. I'm not prepping this rifle for combat or competition, but I do enjoy having quality equipment even if I only wind up shooting cans and paper with it. The rifle will honestly get fondled more than shot, I have to drive 30 minutes to my inlaws' to have a place to shoot, and then can only push it as much as their collective patients will allow (range in the area is $10/hour).

What sort of things should I be looking at for upgrades? My top two "wish list" items now are a Geissele SSA-E trigger and an Aimpoint PRO. Right now I'm just running the detachable carry handle (love those irons), Magpul MIAD grip, MOE forend, and MVG grip.

 

[TurtlePhish]

The trigger and optic sound like great first upgrades. I'd get the optic first, but that's just me.

If you intend the rifle for defensive use, get a flashlight and mount.

I can't see needing much else.

 

[Walkalong]

Put a decent optic on it, then shoot it a bunch for six months or more before you go making changes. After that you will have a better idea of mods and optics.

 

[a-sheepdog]

This is my way of doing things, but I would switch out the trigger group and put in a RRA NM trigger. Makes trigger pull much smoother and maybe add a set of KNS trigger pins. The RRA trigger is usually about $100 and the KNS pins are usually about $28 so cheaper than an optic. I would then put an Eotech or Aimpoint PRO on the rifle. Thats just my opinion, my bolt rifles have spoiled me with good triggers.

 

[wriggly]

Save your money on the trigger, and get an Aimpoint T1 2 MOA, and put it on a LaRue QD mount. Then later, when $$ allows, get a LaRue QD Scope mount and get some decent glass. You will be able to switch back and forth between the two at will while maintaining zero on both. That, and Pmags as you can find them, and forget all the rest of the crap that may tempt you.

 

[ZGunner]

Save your money on the trigger, and get an Aimpoint T1 2 MOA, and put it on a LaRue QD mount. Then later, when $$ allows, get a LaRue QD Scope mount and get some decent glass. You will be able to switch back and forth between the two at will while maintaining zero on both. That, and Pmags as you can find them, and forget all the rest of the crap that may tempt you.

I was looking at the T1 and H1, I just couldnt justify the extra ~$200 difference over the PRO. I also need to justify it to a wife that isn't too keen on dropping $600 on something that serves the same fuction as a $75 NCStar or the like.

 

[adelbridge]

Putting in a good trigger is the first thin I do to my ar's.
I swear by Timney 3lb triggers. I have experience with rra, geiselle etc and for the money Timney is best value and single stage. Cmc makes a good too. You can make a world of difference to your stock trigger with 3lb springs and a set screw in grip threads to save some cash.

 

[arizona98tj]

I also need to justify it to a wife that isn't too keen on dropping $600 on something that serves the same fuction as a $75 NCStar or the like.

Comparing a NCStar to an Aimpoint is akin to comparing a Yugo to a Mustang.

You've been given some reasonable suggestions....it's up to you to take them or not. Good luck.

 

[ugaarguy]

I also need to justify it to a wife that isn't too keen on dropping $600 on something that serves the same fuction as a $75 NCStar or the like.

That's like comparing a rickshaw to a Japanese made sedan. Both will get you from point a to point b, but one will do so far more efficiently, comfortably, and reliably.

I like the Aimpoint PRO quite well though. The H1/T1 is much lighter, but the PR isn't that heavy, and like every other Aimpoint it just works.

I'd also put a good white light on it for target ID for SD/HD use. You can find a Surefire G2X tactical, which was just upgraded to 320 lumens, for $70 or less online. There are tons of mounts available to put a 1" body diameter flashlight (like the SF G2X Tac) on an MOE fore end. I'd get a decent sling as well. Again, just about any sling mount you can think of is available for that MOE fore end, and most of them don't cost much at all.

Last, I'd shoot the rifle with the stock trigger for a while before dropping $200+ on an upgrade. My priorities would also be the light and sling before the optic. You'd be surprised at how versatile an AR can be with standard irons and a quality light.

 

[Warp]

I was looking at the T1 and H1, I just couldnt justify the extra ~$200 difference over the PRO. I also need to justify it to a wife that isn't too keen on dropping $600 on something that serves the same fuction as a $75 NCStar or the like.

As stated above, comparing an Aimpoint T1 in a LaRue QR mount to a $75 NCStar is, well...let's just say there's nothing resembling equality between them.

I understand your point about comparing the T1 to the PRO though. While I would love to have a T1 in a LaRue QR mount, that runs $650 while a PRO can be had for $380-$415. The PRO will serve you very well.

I don't know if this rifle might be used defensively, but for a defensive rifle...or one that could reasonably be pushed into defensive use if the situation dictated...the first upgrades I would do, other than training and ammo and trigger time...are:

Sling
Weaponlight
Optic


Do you have any Appleseeds in your area you might attend?

http://www.appleseedinfo.org/search-states-display.php?qstate=GA&statename=Georgia

http://www.appleseedinfo.org/search-states-display.php?qstate=FL&statename=Florida

 

[madcratebuilder]

Use any money you have to buy ammo. Put a few thousand rounds down range , then decide what kind of upgrades you want. All those cool bolt-ons do no good if you can't afford ammo.

 

[Fishbed77]

My top two "wish list" items now are a Geissele SSA-E trigger and an Aimpoint PRO.

I can not recommend a PRO highly enough. It's an amazing red dot optic for the money, and packaged with a great (if heavy) mount. No other red dot or holo I've used had ever some close in quality.

As far as the Geissele trigger, I think it's overkill for a 16" carbine (especially one to which you are mounting a no-magnification optic), but to each his own. I suggest shooting the rifle with the stock trigger for a while. My guess is the standard trigger will break in nicely, and you will never miss the Geissele trigger. That's been my experience with my Spikes/PSA 16" carbine w/ PRO optic. Use the money for ammo instead.

 

[Warp]

I can not recommend a PRO highly enough. It's an amazing red dot optic for the money, and packaged with a great (if heavy) mount. No other red dot or holo I've used had ever some close in quality.

As far as the Geissele trigger, I think it's overkill for a 16" carbine (especially one to which you are mounting a no-magnification optic), but to each his own. I suggest shooting the rifle with the stock trigger for a while. My guess is the standard trigger will break in nicely, and you will never miss the Geissele trigger. That's been my experience with my Spikes/PSA 16" carbine w/ PRO optic. Use the money for ammo instead.

The barrel length is not a very significant factor in accuracy.

In my experience, the only people who never miss a Geissele (or similar), are the ones who haven't used one.

I didn't miss it either. Until I put one on one of my carbines and not the other. I guess ignorance is bliss.

 

[Coyote3855]

I vote for trigger. Just received fire control groups for a Colt AR and a S&W M&P 15-.22 back from a guy in Colorado. Amazing work for 1/4 the price of a drop-in trigger, if you can find a drop in trigger. Mailed parts to him on Monday, recived back on Friday. PM for contact information. (Mods, is this okay? Can I post the contact information directly?) If I'm violating the rules (yep, I read them), please delete.

 

[Fishbed77]

The barrel length is not a very significant factor in accuracy.

I know it's not. I didn't say that it was.

That said, I don't see a whole lot of folks trying to make carbines like the M&P-15 into precision rifles that benefit most from a nicer trigger than a stock AR trigger (which obviously vary in quality themselves). That and the fact that the OP explicitly stated that he was mounting a red dot and was likely using the rifle as a plinker. Just giving the OP my honest opinion. I think extra ammo is a better value than a very expensive (but excellent) trigger upgrade.

In my experience, the only people who never miss a Geissele (or similar), are the ones who haven't used one.

A bit presumptuous, don't you think? (FYI, I do have a bit of experience with Geissele triggers).

 

[Warp]

I know it's not. I didn't say that it was.

That said, I don't see a whole lot of folks trying to make carbines like the M&P-15 into precision rifles that benefit most from a nicer trigger than a stock AR trigger (which obviously vary in quality themselves). That and the fact that the OP explicitly stated that he was mounting a red dot and was likely using the rifle as a plinker. Just giving the OP my honest opinion. I think extra ammo is a better value than a very expensive (but excellent) trigger upgrade.



A bit presumptuous, don't you think? (FYI, I do have a bit of experience with Geissele triggers).

Perhaps this boils down to semantics/difference of opinion/different word usage, but I don't consider putting a nicer trigger into an AR as necessarily trying to make it a "precision rifle". In my mind a "precision rifle" would probably have a 1.5 lb or lighter trigger, not a 4.5 pound Geissele, looking just at this one aspect by itself.

Presumptuous? Not all at. I stated my experience. Your experience may vary. Which Geissele trigger(s) have you had?

Keep in mind I didn't suggest a trigger, but I do believe that telling somebody who has (seemingly) not used a sweet trigger, like a Geissele, that they won't miss it, is a bit misleading. "Ignorance is bliss".

 

[chris in va]

I have a Sport. I mounted a red dot, curved buttpad and smaller diopter sight. That's it, after two years.

 

[Warp]

I have a Sport. I mounted a red dot, curved buttpad and smaller diopter sight. That's it, after two years.

Do you use a sling?

Have you considered a light?

What do you use the rifle for?

How many rounds through it so far?

 

[ZGunner]

Comparing a NCStar to an Aimpoint is akin to comparing a Yugo to a Mustang.

That's like comparing a rickshaw to a Japanese made sedan.

I couldn't agree more. I'm pushing real hard for the PRO. But she sees Midway papers and wonders why something that looks almost exactly the same (TruGlo) can be $350 LESS. The "quality equipment" line always pales in comparison to dollar signs. But I usually get my way, it's just takes grovelling and yard work to get it.

 

[Fishbed77]

I couldn't agree more. I'm pushing real hard for the PRO. But she sees Midway papers and wonders why something that looks almost exactly the same (TruGlo) can be $350 LESS.

The PRO is vastly superior to even the higher-end budget (~$170-$200) sights like the Vortex StrikeFire (which I also own) or the Lucid LD7. The glass is much clearer and the construction is much more robust, but the big kicker is the battery life of the PRO (like all Aimpoints). Mine has been turned on for two years now. Try that with any non-Aimpoint red dot or holo sight. No buttons to fumble with. Always ready to pick up and go.

Tell her the battery life of the PRO will offset the cost of batteries over the lifetime of the optic. Might not be true, but worth a try.

Also, the PRO comes with a mount and a riser for the AR platform, as well as lens caps. These are added costs for the Wal-Mart sights.

If all else fails, hide the Midway ads.


.

 

[mljdeckard]

I like Magpul everything. And their accessories aren't so expensive that if you try something and then decide you don't like it, you don't want to scrap it.

 

[Revoliver]

http://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_3X_Compact_Scope_PAC3X_p/pac3x.htm

Or for twice the price get the Burris ar332 or the Burris ar536.


After that, ammo and magazines.

That's it.



Unless you're trying to turn to tune it towards a specific task.

 

[chris in va]

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris in va
I have a Sport. I mounted a red dot, curved buttpad and smaller diopter sight. That's it, after two years.
Do you use a sling?

Have you considered a light?

What do you use the rifle for?

How many rounds through it so far?

Yes, I put a web sling on it but really don't use it, unlike my Garand.

Light for what?

Plinking at the range.

About 2500 so far but tips are scarce so I'm just keeping a basic stock of about 600 on hand.

 

[skywalkrNCSU]

Put a decent optic on it, then shoot it a bunch for six months or more before you go making changes. After that you will have a better idea of mods and optics.

This. If you get a nice trigger now you will be spoiled for all other AR-15 purchases you make, I can't leave any of mine with the GI trigger anymore after using an SSA-E.

 

[Warp]

Yes, I put a web sling on it but really don't use it, unlike my Garand.

Light for what?

Plinking at the range.

About 2500 so far but tips are scarce so I'm just keeping a basic stock of about 600 on hand.

A light for target identification if the rifle might be used defensively. If it's just a range toy a light probably don't do anything for you but cost money and add weight.