URGENT!!! House to Vote Soon On Granting FBI Unlimited Access To Gun Sales Records!!!

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DirksterG30

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House to Vote Soon On Granting FBI Unlimited Access To Gun Sales Records

Please call your representative tonight - the vote on this could be as early as Friday.

URGENT!!! URGENT!!!
-- House to Vote Soon On Granting FBI Unlimited Access To Gun Sales Records

Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org

Thursday, November 17, 2005


Registration leads to confiscation. We all know that, and that is why GOA has vehemently opposed all attempts by government forces to compile or retain information pertaining to lawful firearms purchases.

But in the name of fighting terrorism, the United States Congress is getting ready to trample on the rights of law-abiding Americans, no matter what the Constitution (and current law) happens to say.

The House will be voting as early as this Friday (tomorrow) on the PATRIOT Act reauthorization bill (H.R. 3199). Congressmen have been ironing out differences in the House and Senate versions of the bill for quite some time, as GOA -- along with other interested organizations -- has watched carefully to see what the House-Senate conferees would produce.

Well, the product stinks.

GOA alerted you in June to the potential dangers in this legislation.
Unfortunately, the problems have remained in the bill, and it poses a very dangerous threat to gun owners.

This LATEST version of this bill has yet to be posted on Thomas (the legislative website for Congress) and, most likely, legislators won't even have this language in front of them before they vote on it. As has happened quite often, they MIGHT get a copy of the bill right before they vote, but they will certainly not have time to read it.

That's why it's so important that you contact your Representative and tell him that gun owners are VERY concerned with this legislation.

Capitol Hill sources have told GOA there is a provision in this bill (Section 215) which would allow the FBI to get a secret court order to seize ANY business records it believes would be relevant to an anti-terrorism investigation... without having to make the case that the gun records they're confiscating have any connection to a suspected terrorist.

Hence, in the name of fighting terrorism, the FBI will be given a license for unbridled fishing expeditions.

Gun sales are business transactions, and FFL holders must retain copies of the 4473 forms (yellow sheets) filled out on every gun sale. Thus, an anti-gun administration could easily determine that such records would be useful in the fight against terrorism, and demand them all.

But that's not all. More than just your gun purchase records are at stake. Financial and medical records, library records and much more will now be open to FBI fishing expeditions. They won't have to get any prior court approval.

It gets worse. If the gun dealer, where you purchased firearms, is required to hand over your gun purchase records, he is BARRED from telling you about it under the PATRIOT Act.

So that dealer would be the ONLY person who could contest the action before your life is raked over the coals... and honestly, how many among us would risk everything rather than tell the feds who it was that stopped by to pick up a Glock a couple of months ago?

Once the FBI has used these secret court orders to collect all gun purchase records across the country, your friendly anti-gun but oh-so-patriotic government would have brought about the gun owner's second-worst-case scenario: a national firearms registration list.

Registration leads to confiscation.

This monstrosity must be stopped. Please take the action requested below, and urge all freedom-loving Americans you know to do the same.

ACTION: Contact your Representative. Politely but firmly demand that they oppose the conference version of the Patriot Act (H.R. 3199), and specifically, its provision to allow secret court orders to collect gun records.

You can use the pre-written message below and send it as an e-mail by visiting the GOA Legislative Action Center at http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm (where phone and fax numbers are also available).
 
Time to start e-mailling/writing our congriscritters to torpedo this.

What is it with the FBI allways trying to do this?:fire:
 
I just wrote my own letter formatted after the GOA suggestion. If you send form letters it's not the same as taking time to write your own.

I focused on the secret court orders and not on firearms. My congresscritter is an ex-FBI agent so I don't hold out much hope. Ole boy network.
 
Sent my letter

My congresscritters are Bill Frist and Lamar Alexander and they have proven to be strong RINO's, so it may not matter. But neither one will ever get my vote again ( the missus says the same thing ), so I guess we're even.

:rolleyes:
 
allmons said:
My congresscritters are Bill Frist and Lamar Alexander and they have proven to be strong RINO's, so it may not matter. But neither one will ever get my vote again ( the missus says the same thing ), so I guess we're even.

:rolleyes:

I agree 100%. If Frist ran again, I would vote for Ford if it came down to it. Frist is no friend of ours, Ford is at least an open enemy.
 
I'm not going to bother contacting my representatives. I just glad the Republicans, the party that supports freedom, is in charge. Something this screwy couldn't possibly pass with the Republicans in charge - and even if it did, there is no way President Bush would sign it. He supports our freedoms - we all know that.
 
House to Vote Soon On Granting FBI Unlimited Access To Gun Sales Records


Please call or e-mail your representative tonight - the vote on this could be as early as Friday.


URGENT!!! URGENT!!!
-- House to Vote Soon On Granting FBI Unlimited Access To Gun Sales Records

Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org

Thursday, November 17, 2005


Registration leads to confiscation. We all know that, and that is why GOA has vehemently opposed all attempts by government forces to compile or retain information pertaining to lawful firearms purchases.

But in the name of fighting terrorism, the United States Congress is getting ready to trample on the rights of law-abiding Americans, no matter what the Constitution (and current law) happens to say.

The House will be voting as early as this Friday (tomorrow) on the PATRIOT Act reauthorization bill (H.R. 3199). Congressmen have been ironing out differences in the House and Senate versions of the bill for quite some time, as GOA -- along with other interested organizations -- has watched carefully to see what the House-Senate conferees would produce.

Well, the product stinks.

GOA alerted you in June to the potential dangers in this legislation.
Unfortunately, the problems have remained in the bill, and it poses a very dangerous threat to gun owners.

This LATEST version of this bill has yet to be posted on Thomas (the legislative website for Congress) and, most likely, legislators won't even have this language in front of them before they vote on it. As has happened quite often, they MIGHT get a copy of the bill right before they vote, but they will certainly not have time to read it.

That's why it's so important that you contact your Representative and tell him that gun owners are VERY concerned with this legislation.

Capitol Hill sources have told GOA there is a provision in this bill (Section 215) which would allow the FBI to get a secret court order to seize ANY business records it believes would be relevant to an anti-terrorism investigation... without having to make the case that the gun records they're confiscating have any connection to a suspected terrorist.

Hence, in the name of fighting terrorism, the FBI will be given a license for unbridled fishing expeditions.

Gun sales are business transactions, and FFL holders must retain copies of the 4473 forms (yellow sheets) filled out on every gun sale. Thus, an anti-gun administration could easily determine that such records would be useful in the fight against terrorism, and demand them all.

But that's not all. More than just your gun purchase records are at stake. Financial and medical records, library records and much more will now be open to FBI fishing expeditions. They won't have to get any prior court approval.

It gets worse. If the gun dealer, where you purchased firearms, is required to hand over your gun purchase records, he is BARRED from telling you about it under the PATRIOT Act.

So that dealer would be the ONLY person who could contest the action before your life is raked over the coals... and honestly, how many among us would risk everything rather than tell the feds who it was that stopped by to pick up a Glock a couple of months ago?

Once the FBI has used these secret court orders to collect all gun purchase records across the country, your friendly anti-gun but oh-so-patriotic government would have brought about the gun owner's second-worst-case scenario: a national firearms registration list.

Registration leads to confiscation.

This monstrosity must be stopped. Please take the action requested below, and urge all freedom-loving Americans you know to do the same.

ACTION: Contact your Representative. Politely but firmly demand that they oppose the conference version of the Patriot Act (H.R. 3199), and specifically, its provision to allow secret court orders to collect gun records.

You can use the pre-written message below and send it as an e-mail by visiting the GOA Legislative Action Center at http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm (where phone and fax numbers are also available).
 
I'm not going to bother contacting my representatives. I'm happy that the Republicans, the party that supports freedom, are in charge. Something this evil couldn't possibly pass with the Republicans in charge - and even if it did, there is no way President Bush would sign it. He supports our freedoms - we all know that.
;)
 
We don't know the exact language of this provision in the bill yet ...
This LATEST version of this bill has yet to be posted on Thomas (the legislative website for Congress) and, most likely, legislators won't even have this language in front of them before they vote on it.

Capitol Hill sources have told GOA there is a provision in this bill (Section 215) which would allow the FBI to get a secret court order to seize ANY business records it believes would be relevant to an anti-terrorism investigation... without having to make the case that the gun records they're confiscating have any connection to a suspected terrorist

Hence, in the name of fighting terrorism, the FBI will be given a license for unbridled fishing expeditions.
Can't the FBI already use the "national security letters" to do the same thing? Clearly, though, if GOA is actually correct here, this would be another bad, bad thing ...
 
...in the name of fighting terrorism, the FBI will be given a license for unbridled fishing expeditions.

I wonder how long it will take the self-appointed geniuses of the F., the B., and the I. to realize that anyone who owns a gun is a potential terrorist. Heck, maybe even a real terrorist. Heck, maybe even another Patty Hearst!
 
Let me get this straight....

Our congresscritters are going to vote on a bill of which they do not have the final text on just yet, and will be unable to fully digest the new text before voting on it, BUT they're going to have time to read emails from a bunch of random Yahoos (in their mind, not mine) who have also not read the final text and base their vote on the opinion of random Yahoos.

I'm seeing a serious problem with goverment operation here, sprinkled with a good dose of Realitius Disconnectmus.

If the bill ain't worth reading, my email won't be worth much either.
 
GigaBuist said:
Let me get this straight....

Our congresscritters are going to vote on a bill of which they do not have the final text on just yet, and will be unable to fully digest the new text before voting on it, BUT they're going to have time to read emails from a bunch of random Yahoos (in their mind, not mine) who have also not read the final text and base their vote on the opinion of random Yahoos.

I'm seeing a serious problem with goverment operation here, sprinkled with a good dose of Realitius Disconnectmus.

If the bill ain't worth reading, my email won't be worth much either.

Maybe you should CALL your representative?
 
rick_reno said:
I'm not going to bother contacting my representatives. I'm happy that the Republicans, the party that supports freedom, are in charge. Something this evil couldn't possibly pass with the Republicans in charge - and even if it did, there is no way President Bush would sign it. He supports our freedoms - we all know that.
;)
While I agree with you in principle, there's a problem. Think of what would happen when the other party regains control. Yes RINOs suck, (I know I have at least 2 Senators) but the alternative is terrible. So I'll just hold my nose and pus hthe button for those RINOs.:cuss:
 
The place to vote FOR someone is in the primary. This is also the strongest argument for membership in the Republican party.

The place to vote AGAINST the worst guy is in the general election.

This is my personal philosophy. I'm mostly adding this for a BUMP.

Mike ;)
 
Coronach hit the nail on the head. Vote your principles for the absolute best possible candidate in the primaries.

If your guy doesn't get past the primaries, do your best to minimize the damage in the general election. Mostly, that means pulling the lever for the elephant...even if the elephant is really a rino.

BTW, I will be calling after my big presentation this AM.
 
I sent an email yesterday via GOA. Unfortunately my representative is extremely anti-gun, so my email will likely just get deleted.
 
Has anyone ever read HR 3199? I have, and it does not seem to me that anything in it can be construed to give anyone special powers which don't require a court's approval. Instead of participating in internet fearmongering, go read it. Granted GOA said that the bill will change from the Thomas version up now, but the original version is very misconstrued by many a media outlet and internet political "guru."

:nomex on:
 
It is my understanding that if the ATF showed up at my door right now and asked for my stack of 4473s I have to let them see it. They could walk in, plug in a scanner, and be out in a couple hours with all of this information. I'm not really sure how this is much different. Could someone please explain this to me?

I mean, the ATF doesn't have to show me a warrant or anything. If the gov't wanted to do what this article suggests couldn't they do it with existing laws?
 
waterhouse said:
It is my understanding that if the ATF showed up at my door right now and asked for my stack of 4473s I have to let them see it. They could walk in, plug in a scanner, and be out in a couple hours with all of this information. I'm not really sure how this is much different. Could someone please explain this to me?

I mean, the ATF doesn't have to show me a warrant or anything. If the gov't wanted to do what this article suggests couldn't they do it with existing laws?

Isn't the GOA talking about National Security Letters? If so, I agree, it's bad, but no worse than the ATF being able to scan every 4473 then but it into a national database. I read in Enemies Foreign and Domestic that the ATF did this for all Beltway gun stores--is that what really happened? Does anyone know if the ATF ever destroyed those records?

Anyway, NSL's should be strongly opposed on general principles of privacy--there's nothing really that drastic about the gun angle. Not that I'm saying the situation isn't perverse. Wasn't it either the '68 or '86 laws that Congress passed with the intent of preventing national gun registration?
 
There is absolutely no reason for the federal government to aggregate more power to itself. If the Republicans keep this up, they'll find themselves out of power again. There is no way their betrayed and pissed off base will be replaced by whoever they're pandering to.
 
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