LiveLife
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US Army's new microchipped ranged ammunition
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Xfire68
Member
I think anything that helps our troops on the ground is an improvement!
They are fighting in places where cover can win the fight but, maybe not any more?
They are fighting in places where cover can win the fight but, maybe not any more?
dogsoldier0513
Member
Afghan press release:
XM-25
Coming soon through a wall near you
XM-25
Coming soon through a wall near you
ssfeldjager
Member
A cute ordnance toy, but not a practical item for general issue to the troops. And it weighs 14 pounds? Consider the cost and the "what could go wrong" factor in the platform. As to cost, the article cites $25k-$30k per rifle. An M4 type runs around $800-$1k. Simple works; exotic, not so much. Nice try; commedable effort, though.
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armoredman
Member
Special issue device, not a general issue, like Designated Marksman with the souped up M14s. Interesting weapon, hope it works to help our fine men and women over seas.
Actually m4's amunition is half the problem. A lot of simple things become "cover" when you shoot 5.56mm bullets. This weapon was designed to shoot behind that cover.
This doesn't mean I agree that to get to someone behind a mud wall, you need a $35000 system. A simple, half century old RPG7 will blow that cover and the bad guy for a couple bucks.
Enough for one per infantry squad and special forces team...not like every soldiers going to be carrying one.
Float Pilot
Member
Be prepared for a huge amount of incorrect information in the media regarding this project. Last night some talking head news idiot, was running his mouth about how the 25mm (one inch) projectile exploded with the force of a hand grenade, accurately, at ranges triple those of conventional rifles.
The B.S. o'meter was pegged right about then.
The B.S. o'meter was pegged right about then.
dirtymike1
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Land Warrior vs. 2.0
yay...
yay...
shotgunjoel
Member
They've been playing with this for a long time. It uses a laser rangefinder to find the distance to a wall. This is considered the standard explosion distance for the round. You can then adjust +/- in yards to make it explode before or after it would hit the wall. So say that you are shooting through an open window at bad guys inside. You laser the wall by the window to get your distance, then adjust the explosion range to blow up 1 or 2 yards past that. You shoot it in the window, and once it's 1 or 2 yards (whichever you told it) inside the window, it exploded. The way that they got the round to calculate range is really cool. The round counts how many times it spins (rifling) to know how far it's gone. I'm just amazed that this thing hasn't already been put into a video game, I'm sure we would have heard people talking about it.
dirtymike1
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objective_Individual_Combat_Weapon_program
It's basically the bottom half of this, the OICW. The orignal was scraped because those who tested it hated the ergo's, being that it is a massive creation, and that it did little over what a M4 and M203 couldn't do already.
As shotgunjoe said, it's a very very cool design and I am glad they got rid of the rest of the system that it was orignally designed for.
It's basically the bottom half of this, the OICW. The orignal was scraped because those who tested it hated the ergo's, being that it is a massive creation, and that it did little over what a M4 and M203 couldn't do already.
As shotgunjoe said, it's a very very cool design and I am glad they got rid of the rest of the system that it was orignally designed for.
HorseSoldier
Member
I'm pretty sure people have been saying this sort of thing about every military innovation to come down the pipeline . . . probably ever. Exotic works just fine, and troops these days don't have the least bit of trouble keeping NODs, weapon thermal sights, ATGMs, battlefield laptops and everything else running. As a complement to our existing weapons systems, it looks like a useful new capability.
Andrew Wyatt
Member
if the airburst functionality goes TU, its still a semi-auto point detonating grenade launcher.
If the ammo works well, and they work out all the bugs inherent in any new system, eventually there may be a 25mm add-on to replace the 40mm M3 grenade launcher.
Anybody remember the pump action grenade launchers on the assault rifles in the movie Aliens?
Anybody remember the pump action grenade launchers on the assault rifles in the movie Aliens?
It actually has been in a video game...idr which but i think it was the ghost recon series...was a lot of fun to lock target range to a wall and blow the crap outta any unfortunate computer player behind it
...but now its a reality.
sappyg
Member
i'm kinda back and forth abouth this thing. i can see that it would be an asset on the front for sure but it looks to be extremely expensive and a possible solution to an issue that may be easily resolved by other means. air and artillery is already a hard cost that can't be avoided. then again, i've never been in combat either.
i do like the idea of bringing it to the front. it could save lives. 12,000 units should be more than enough to see where this may lead. for sure it looks to be a force multiplier which could save more lives and money. that is unless you're on the recieving end of this thing. another curiousity is what other types of ammo could become available for it in the future? i dought this is the last we will see of this technology.
i do like the idea of bringing it to the front. it could save lives. 12,000 units should be more than enough to see where this may lead. for sure it looks to be a force multiplier which could save more lives and money. that is unless you're on the recieving end of this thing. another curiousity is what other types of ammo could become available for it in the future? i dought this is the last we will see of this technology.
AR27
Member
looks sweet, but very expensive. And i think my ammo costs to much
This is the future of small arms. Conventional bullet pushers have reached their apex and there's not really anything left to do to make them more effective on the battlefield. The ACR studies suggested that in order to raise the hit probability of small arms was to go to an explosive round.
Right now this is pre-first generation technology and it's expensive, complex and heavy. Anyone remember the first cell phones? The weapon will get lighter, cheaper and better. Give it the option to fire some sort of cannister/flechette load for close in work and it can replace and improve on the rifle in almost every way. The rifle will still have a role to play in the hands of the specialist, but this is the future.
Right now this is pre-first generation technology and it's expensive, complex and heavy. Anyone remember the first cell phones? The weapon will get lighter, cheaper and better. Give it the option to fire some sort of cannister/flechette load for close in work and it can replace and improve on the rifle in almost every way. The rifle will still have a role to play in the hands of the specialist, but this is the future.
HorseSoldier
Member
The initial OICW project was definitely over ambitious, but I agree that the air bursting projectile is the only option on the board right now to break through the limitations inherent to current small arms. To ultimately work as a general issue weapon rather than a support weapon, it's going to have to be married back up to a kinetic energy component (CQB with a grenade launcher seems a bad idea), but as you note this isn't even Gen 1 right now and we'll see what it looks like it 5-15 years.
dogsoldier0513
Member
I'd hate to be the grunt assigned to the weapon. If you think our snipers have it rough, what with being singled out by the insurgents, just imagine being this guy.
Quiet
Member
Regarding the OICW...
The Daewoo K-11 is the South Korean version of the XM29 OICW.
It's a 5.56x45mm rifle with a 20x30mm bolt-action launcer. Unit cost is $14,000 USD.
The ROK military adopted it in 2008 and is slated to replace the K2 rifle with K203 launcher. ROK Marines got it first, ROK Army are just start getting them.
ROK marines have been using the Daewoo K11 in Afghanistan for about a year now.
S&T Daewoo K-11
(Afghanistan) ROK Marine in background is aiming a Daewoo K-11.
The Daewoo K-11 is the South Korean version of the XM29 OICW.
It's a 5.56x45mm rifle with a 20x30mm bolt-action launcer. Unit cost is $14,000 USD.
The ROK military adopted it in 2008 and is slated to replace the K2 rifle with K203 launcher. ROK Marines got it first, ROK Army are just start getting them.
ROK marines have been using the Daewoo K11 in Afghanistan for about a year now.
S&T Daewoo K-11
(Afghanistan) ROK Marine in background is aiming a Daewoo K-11.
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
Isn't it pretty easy to get an inaccurate reading from a laser range finder? Reflective surfaces, angles, fog, smoke, different color targets, etc can all make a ranger finder give an inaccurate reading right? So when you're relying on an accuracy with +/- 1 meter or less, I imagine this would be pretty easy to mess up. You shine it a window that is angled, and it tells you 78meters when it's really 84. You set the grenade only to have it explode well before it gets to the window.
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