US Marines need your help

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I hold this position not only because I feel sorry for the innocent people we are terrorizing around the globe, but also because I believe in the inherent, natural and God-given rights of all human beings. And if our troops are willing to follow orders that violate the natural rights of a foreign population, there is no reason to believe that they will not follow the same orders to violate the rights of the population here at home. And THAT, in particular, is what scares me most of all.

P.S. - I wrote all that because I'm assuming that I'm not going to get the typical "like it or move to Canada" or "pussy coward traitor commie" response. Please don't prove me wrong.

I won't call you names or tell you to "Love It Or Leave It".
Been there, done all that. I was a grunt Marine in Viet Nam in
69 and 70. I don't want to get into that again.
But I don't agree with your opinion of our situation in Iraq.

I feel sorry for "innocent" people, too. But our purpose in Iraq is to get
to the "not so innocent" and stop another 9-11 from happening. At least
that's my opinion of why we are there.

You do remember 9-11, don't you? Airliners flown into the World Trade
Center?

A whole lot of people started screaming "Why didn't we do something to stop this?" the day after that happened. Well, that's what we're doing in Iraq. Something to keep something like that from happening again.

And I hope attitudes like yours don't become common enough to cause us
to stop hunting down and KILLING the dirtbags who want to destroy this country.

Walter
 
You do remember 9-11, don't you? Airliners flown into the World Trade
Center?
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Ok, so he trod on the thin ice.

If we were making war on Saudia Arabia, (the homeland of the overwhelming majority of the 9-11 terrorists) you might have a point.

I think he did a pretty good job of describing a legitimate concern about killing a bunch of goat herders that really didn't have anything to do with it.

If the UN came in here tomorrow and started doing door to doors and shooting civilians there would be a lot of us here that would be happy to be called "insurgents" I yam one of them.

I think it's best if we try to remember the words of good ol' George Washington, who said and I paraphrase, "Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none."

Pax Americana is not the way to do that.
 
The old saying, "the old men start the wars and the young men die in them", Could not be truer. So now when those young men, have found them selves in a conflict of interest, skylighted in a political/media storm... we turn our backs on them. These men did it out of survival, to one day enjoy... the freedoms all non-military enjoy everyday, but don't think for a minute that they knew exactly what they were getting into. When put in the position to Survive, every action has a reaction.

To try to Grossly Justify this; Once you've killed several people, your vision of killing again has become obscured, and debateable only in your mind, law and normal thinking is far from any secondary thought. The difference between right and wrong goes away, you're left with instinct. You know how many times I've woke up in the night, hearing "noises", I'll clear the house, not out of "home protection, but out of a speculation to comit a 'justifiable homicide'. I used to think for hours on why I shouldn't kill my new 2nd Lt or maybe if I blew up the Gunny (who hadn't seen and still hasn't seen combat) he may understand why I could care less about his uniform inspections. The urge to kill, becomes second nature, many of the service men returning strugle with this state side, you can't turn it off, there is no switch. Once you spend 7 months in a combat zone, standing toe-to-toe with death, seeing the blood and guts of your own & the enemy, you'll rationalize any thing that your gut tells you will extend your life span.

So what did happen over there, the sh*t hit the fan, one of thier buddies died... we have a saying, if the guy running from the IED explosion isn't guilty of setting it off, he's guilty of knowing about it and doing nothing, either way, he's still guilty and now has observed how we react, which is sometimes more dangerous than the bomb itself.

So maybe we have become the Roman Empire, with the USA's Global 911 protection of all and aid to everyone, if we can reasonably be compared to that if so... please right your Political Leaders; I'm all for being the Roman Empire. How did the Romans fight? over lust full Genocide! I don't think Mark Antony, and Octavian would be served proud. We're already being compared to "Nazi SS Storm Troopers", go ahead and open the gates. To call us Mercenarys? We're far from that, although there are alot of men going to private contracting/security firms as not to fall under the 'laws of war' that we seem to tie our hands with.

I'll save this (respectfully) for the 'hippy/commy/yuppy sector'; If you think for a second that any US Service personel, give two sh*t's about Iraq or the Iraqi people you're sadly mistaken... There's 3 general catagorys of Fighting Men/Women; Those who want to KILL, Those who want the experiance and those who want to suck up the Tax Free/Extra Pay, yes there's satisfaction in humanity projects, but that's few and far between. Support the men who are over there doing it because they have too, they could give a bucket of three week old port-a-john sludge on what your feelings are, expecially when you give an opinion different than thiers, even though they'd give thier life for you to hold you're own opinion and not be under tyranny

The utmost of Saveing Face for the Armed Forces; Basically we do what we're told, when we're told, with the only exceptions being on the individual squad level, were small unit leaders are the key to winning the battle and survival. This is where the human factor takes its toll and mistakes are made, this is where disipline comes to light and shows that we don't rampage the country side; rapeing, pillageing and burning down villages. We don't make politics, the 1% of the US population that is Serveing Thier Country, is controlled by the Politics that the everday citizen has more power to control than they know about. It didn't take long for the complaints about; body armor, vehicle armor, ect, to take to the news medial and our representitives before action was taken.

These latest incidences of chargeing service personel with 'murder' are oxymoronic. In my opinion.
 
KC&97TA, I'd suggest that you need some help. And I just don't believe you're going to get any type of validation for your statements here.
If you think for a second that any US Service personel, give two sh*t's about Iraq or the Iraqi people you're sadly mistaken... There's 3 general catagorys of Fighting Men/Women; Those who want to KILL, Those who want the experiance and those who want to suck up the Tax Free/Extra Pay,
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This statement is just plain wrong.
Once you've killed several people, your vision of killing again has become obscured, and debateable only in your mind, law and normal thinking is far from any secondary thought. The difference between right and wrong goes away, you're left with instinct.
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You're saying things that not only are not true, these sort of statements really have no place on this forum.

It would seem as though you are attempting to rationalize the actions of the Marines (and one Sailor) with regard to your original post. Since you were not present during that event, and none of us were either, you cannot possibly justify their actions, nor can we even begin to judge right or wrong in this case, and hence, provide any sympathy or support for those men.
 
As much as I never thought I'd say this, wait for the investigation and trials to end. If the men are guilty then let them be punished, if not then they will go free.

If the men did screw up and kill someone they didn't have to/weren't supposed to don't just blindly defend them. You can't be proud of having a well disciplined military if that isn't true.
 
I was a Marine officer in Viet Nam (I know, another ??? war). I went because I took an oath to serve as directed by legitimate authorities. I didn't go because I wanted to kill someone, and I don't believe the men that served with me wanted to kill someone--most were extremely happy to go home. On one patrol, my radio man was severly injured. My 1st reaction was to have my platoon shoot into a tree line where we heard noise. I, fortunately, had a platoon sargeant who had seen it all and who took me aside to have a quiet talk. I realized later that he was calming me down so that I would do my job correctly. I was neither trained nor paid to take revenge, no matter how good it would have felt. However, to belittle the men doing what they are told to do in Iraq is wrong. In this country, because of our "system," those ELECTED by the MAJORITY of all citizens are the ones who put them there. Congress could over-rule the president. That said, if these men did take "revenge," then their unit leader is at fault. Believe me, I understand how he felt, but revenge accomplishes nothing that will help the war. What is my point? Before you are ready to jump all over them, try to understand that they are good men serving the elected leaders of this country, and they are in a situation you CANNOT understand unless you have been there. Without people like them, we would all be speaking German or French or Spanish or some other language.

As for feeling nothing for the people, I remember some of us watching some children play in a river and feeling sorry that they were growing up in this environment--we didn't "not Care" about them at all--we gave them food, were respectful of their homes, and, when necessary and we were able to, we got the civilians out of the way.

PS: It turns out there was a small village on the other side of the trees. I would be a complete nut case today if we had fired through the trees and killed a bunch of civilians, no matter what a court-martial would have done.
 
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Well said, DavyR; and welcome to THR, in case everybody else forgot their manners.

To repeat myself: these Marines may have done something wrong under very great emotional stress. Let the Marine Corps sort it out; you and I don't know all the facts. No Marine I've ever known would condone murder, if that's what this turns out to be. Sympathize, perhaps; condone, NO.

TC
 
These latest incidences of chargeing service personel with 'murder' are oxymoronic. In my opinion.
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Not neccessarily. Like I said before, being a Marine/Soldier in a war zone does not give you a pass to kill indiscriminately.
 
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