USA: "Move to Justice Dept. Brings ATF New Focus"

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cuchulainn

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30105-2003Jan22.html

from the Washington Post

Move to Justice Dept. Brings ATF New Focus
Under Security Reorganization, Agency Will Stress Firearms Probes

By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, January 23, 2003; Page A19


After more than two centuries of history with the Treasury Department, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms on Friday will report to a new boss: the Justice Department.

The move means that the ATF will no longer be responsible for collecting taxes and fees on tobacco and spirits. Instead, it will be devoting itself full time to investigating firearms violations, explosives thefts, cigarette smuggling and other crimes.

ATF and Justice Department officials say the shift will give the ATF a tighter focus on law enforcement, and will allow it to coordinate more closely with the FBI, the Drug Enforcement Administration and other agencies. The move is part of a broader reshuffling after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks that led to the creation of the Department of Homeland Security.

"Suddenly it was clear that something different needed to be done," said ATF Director Bradley A. Buckles, who has been with the agency since 1974. "This will help make sure we are on the same page in how we interact and work together."

But the move has been met with resistance from some in the FBI, which has had a rocky relationship with the ATF and which historically has sought to gain more control over firearms and explosives cases.

The change is also attracting scrutiny from gun control groups, which fear the agency's mission to regulate gun purchases will be compromised by Attorney General John D. Ashcroft, a strong gun-rights advocate and lifetime member of the National Rifle Association. The NRA has had its own run-ins with the ATF, which it has often characterized as overzealous in its treatment of innocent gun owners.

"You couldn't find a scarier time to put the ATF in the Department of Justice, when you have the most pro-gun attorney general in history," said Matthew Nosanchuk, litigation director for the Violence Policy Center, which favors stricter regulation of firearms. "It's like the fox guarding the henhouse."

Adam Ciongoli, Ashcroft's legal counsel, said, "We have no intention of politicizing the ATF. Their job will continue to be the enforcement of federal gun laws."

NRA chief lobbyist Chris Cox said, "Whether ATF is at DOJ or the Department of Education, it makes no difference. There are still legitimate concerns and issues that we'll be keeping an eye on."

The ATF, which can trace its roots to the late 1700s, has long seemed out of place among the tax collectors and banking experts at Treasury. The increasing federal interest in governing firearms, along with aggressive efforts to stem violent crime rates, had transformed the ATF primarily into a law enforcement agency, even though it collected the most tax revenue for the government behind the Internal Revenue Service.

As a result, officials have discussed various plans to move, merge or eliminate the ATF for decades. Now with the U.S. Customs Service and the Secret Service, both Treasury agencies, headed for the Homeland Security Department, the Bush administration and Congress decided that it made sense to move the ATF into Justice at the same time.

"They're going to come under the same boss, which will make it easier than it was in the past, when you had Justice and Treasury in competition," said Richard J. Gallo, president of the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association. "There might be fewer elbows thrown around."

Still, one of the biggest potential stumbling blocks is the often-strained relationship between the ATF and the FBI, said many government officials and outside observers. The two agencies have clashed periodically, including disputes over the Waco confrontation and over control of the crime scene at the Pentagon after the crash of hijacked American Airlines Flight 77.

Most recently, an unidentified midlevel FBI official wrote an internal memo asserting that the ATF was too small, lacked sufficient training to lead investigations and had a "lack of strategic vision." FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III quickly discounted the document, and pledged his support for moving the ATF into the Justice Department.

Buckles said many of the reported tensions are "exaggerated," and he pointed to the recent sniper investigation in the Washington area as a prime example of cooperation between the two.

"We work well with and cooperatively with the FBI all over the country, and we do it every day," said Buckles. "Being in the same department is going to help on some of those issues, as well."

Officials said the ATF will retain about 4,600 employees after Friday's move, leaving behind about 550 others to continue collecting revenue for Treasury.

The agency will remain in its current leased offices near the MCI Center, awaiting a move to new headquarters in Northeast Washington in about two years.

The bureau will also get a name change -- to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives -- but will stick with the well-known ATF moniker. The new name comes in part from added enforcement powers under the new Safe Explosives Act, which subjects explosives purchasers to some of the restrictions and background checks required for gun buyers.


© 2003 The Washington Post Company
 
Awww...the thugs don't play nice together. Should've moved them all to the toilet but, I suppose that since the toilet is smarter it would've just backed up and spewed them all out!

Chipper
 
BATFE...

1789 - BA
In 1789 under the new Constitution, the first Congress imposed a tax on imported spirits to offset a portion of the Revolutionary War debt assumed from the states. Administration of duties fell to the Department of the Treasury, whose Secretary, Alexander Hamilton, had suggested them.
1862 - BAT
By Act of 1 July 1862, Congress created an Office of Internal Revenue within the Treasury Department, charging the commissioner with collection, among others, of taxes on distilled spirits and tobacco products that continue, with amendments, today.
1942 - BATF
National dismay over the weaponry wielded so conspicuously by organized crime during Prohibition led to passage in 1934 of the National Firearms Act, followed in four years by the Federal Firearms Act. The newly regulated articles might be firearms, but taxes were involved as ever. The Miscellaneous Tax Unit, Bureau of Internal Revenue, collected the fees. In 1942 enforcement duties for the "Firearms Program" fell to the ATU, which was accustomed to managing controversial industries.
1968 - BATFE
This incarnation lasted until 1968 passage of the Gun Control Act, which gave to the laboratory, among other things, responsibility for explosives.

ATF history

Sounds like all of this could have been stopped when NFA was challenged in 1939 by US vs Miller. But, not surprisingly, gun groups were not engaged in the encroachment of rights by the government, and we started down this slippery slope! :cuss:
 
safe explosives act

The new name comes in part from added enforcement powers under the new Safe Explosives Act, which subjects explosives purchasers to some of the restrictions and background checks required for gun buyers.

I'm new here. Has it already been noticed that the Safe Explosives Act will subject those of us who (purchase gunpowder to) reload ammo to fingerprinting, background checks, a $25 (minimum) yearly fee, and being photographed?

http://www.logwell.com/tech/reg/Safe_Explosives_Act_PR.html

MR

Edit: It might just be for black powder.
 
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Chipper with all due respect your post is right on target and brings credit to all gun owners.

DFseeksthetruthBonnett
 
ATF was part of Treasury because back then, the words "in or affecting interstate commerce" were not an all-powerful, magic incantation which can bring federal authority to absolutely anything. Congress needed authority under Article 1, Section 8, and the found it in the power to tax, which is the same place they found the authority to prohibit cannabis.

The Constitution has grown since then, as living documents are wont to do, so it is no longer necessary to use the taxation power grab to justify such things.

Oh, and Chipper's right.
 
The ATF has always been an illegal collection of lawless thugs who belong in jail or on the gallows. The new and improved BATFEces bring further discredit to the dept. of injustice and the FBI.
 
[sarcasm]

Chipper, with all due respect your post is uncalled for and brings discredit on toilets. I haven't seen a toilet big enough to handle those two [FBI&ATF] pieces of crap.

[/sarcasm]

:D :D :D :D
 
Folks, there are many myths out there among gun-owners about the ATF that need to be cleared up. For what it's worth, I'm a Fed myself (Bureau of Prisons), and I can tell you with absolute confidence that there are an awful lot of firearms crimes that cry out for investigation and prosecution. The FBI and ATF, in their respective spheres, have done a great job in dealing with them over the years. Sure, there have been abuses from both agencies, and I'd be among the first to say that when such abuses occur, the guilty parties need to be dealt with to the fullest extent of the law. Unfortunately, under the previous administration, this often did not happen, for reasons that are obvious to us all...

This doesn't alter the fact that there are many honest, loyal and upstanding officers in both agencies. Now that ATF has been reorganized, I'm sure we'll see a vastly increased emphasis on its law enforcement functions, and much less on the politically-motivated actions that discredited it in the past. I hope that all responsible gun-owners will give Attorney-General Ashcroft a chance to bring about the changes we all agree are needed: and in the meantime, please remember that there are literally thousands of good, honest Americans in the ATF, who hate playing politics, and want to do the right thing. I've trained alongside them, and trust them, and am very grateful that they've locked up many of the felons to whom I minister on a daily basis.

Don't just accept and blindly pass on the myths of others. There's always another side to the story...
 
For what it's worth, I'm a Fed myself (Bureau of Prisons), and I can tell you with absolute confidence that there are an awful lot of firearms crimes that cry out for investigation and prosecution.

Depends on whether you're talking about crimes committed with firearms (virtually all of which are, or should be, state matters), or the "crime" of possessing and trading in firearms. Seems to me that ATF is primarily concerned with the latter, which is why I think they're a BATF Out Of Hell.
 
Depends on whether you're talking about crimes committed with firearms (virtually all of which are, or should be, state matters), or the "crime" of possessing and trading in firearms. Seems to me that ATF is primarily concerned with the latter, which is why I think they're a BATF Out Of Hell.
Publius, there are many crimes committed in the latter area as well. I'm not talking here about private individuals conducting normal business: I'm talking national inter-gang transactions, illegal international commerce (including many terrorist organizations), threats from explosives (and here there are too many crimes and organizations involved to categorize them - I'm sure you can think of many yourself), etc. The ATF and FBI have done an outstanding job in closing down many of these crimes and locking up many of the criminals. Unfortunately, due to the security requirements of their work, a great deal of it is not publicized (if you announce proudly that you've busted crime syndicate A for this particular crime in this particular way, crime syndicate B will learn from your boasting and make themselves much more difficult to target).
 
The ATF has always been an illegal collection of lawless thugs who belong in jail or on the gallows

Another disgraceful comment:barf:

Makes me understand why many people support unreasonable gun control...

WildsomeofthistuffischildishAlaska
 
Speak for yourself.

Your right..I should say:

"with all due respect your post is uncalled for and brings discredit on responsible, mature gun owners who are not filled with hate....."

Any time anyone wants to discuss problems with law enforcemtn agencies without resorting to puerile rhetoric, please let me know.

WildbadspeechspoilsthemessageAlaska
 
Hmmm...speaking of explosives...at what cost do we try to limit the access of violent people to explosives? Keep in mind that a motivated person with a basic knowledge of chemistry can go to Home Depot and build a nice bomb.

From my latest REASON magazine:

New homeland security restrictions intended to keep explosives from terrorists trip up efforts to protect ski areas from avalanches. Nonresident aliens can no longer handle explosives without clearing yards of red tape, which means snow-pack control experts from Europe, Australia, and New Zealand are off the team.

Yeah, the bad guys won't find a way around this. :rolleyes:

More victim disarmament. :barf:

Go after the crimes, not the tools!
 
Move to Justice Dept. Brings ATF New Focus

I read this story a couple of times, and found no factual basis on which to base any opinion one way or the other. Trying to avoid puerility; perhaps those board members who deal with these guys everyday, and seem moved to defend the agency will address these questions:

Some hard evidence that the "new, improved" ATF will become the champion for individual RKBA? Many cheered when Ashcroft reversed this opinion of the former Clinton regime. Exactly how has this translated into revised enforcement practice?

Does the ATF's new focus mean that they no longer will enforce ticky-tack clauses like "must obey all local ordinances", to deny FFL approval? Here's a policy that has been selectively enforced as a pretext to harass, and essentially eliminate kitchen table dealers. I've always wondered why this clause was never used to shut down thousands of Amway/Avon dealers throughout the country...equal protection under the law? Will the new ATF cease their interest in enforcing zoning regulations? (As if they had any interest/jurisdiction in freakin' ZONING to begin with???)

ATF apologists don't want to rehash Waco...considering it puerile to expect accountability for abuses, rather than coverup and promotion of the participants. How about some evidence that the new ATF no longer treats prospective raids as media events to justify budget increases? OK, maybe they stopped bringing their own camera crews along on the raids...but what's up with these comical press conferences, where a "cache" or "armory" is spread out on tables like at a gunshow, with the "officials" deceptively describing de-milled/inert weapons as fully functional, along with some multi-thousand (million) dollar value, and press releases salted with scary sounding adjectives to demonize the arrestee? Are we seeing any changes in this policy?

Apparently the members who deal with ATF on a regular basis think they're just swell...perhaps these folks can fill in gaps as to exactly how this agency (new, improved) is changing things to polish up what is generally agreed to be a lousy image in the gun community? As I said, the article in question provides no evidence. Batter up.
 
So farmers will all need an explosives license to buy their fertilizer and fill their tanks with diesel fuel?

How about if you or I go to home depot and the gas station 10 bags of fertilizer and 20 gallons of diesel fuel can do alot of damage, throw in a little powdered aluminum, and youve got the explosive used in the MOAB munition, and the potential for alot of damage. How about if I want to buy a 350 gallon Propane tank and have the local fuel comany fill it, mount it on a truck and there you go.

But heck if the terrorist want a really big bomb and no work, all they have to do is take a gasoline delivery truck while the driver is in the office delivering at any neighborhood gas station
 
Good questions, hammer

There is a difference between attacking the agency and its mission and attacking the agents. In any large group, you'll find plenty of good people and a minority of bad apples.

You'd be hard pressed to find a stronger opponent of prohibition than I am. I still enjoyed going kayaking with my neighbor's buddy, who is a DEA agent. Nice man. I like him. I wish he'd find other work.
 
Some hard evidence that the "new, improved" ATF will become the champion for individual RKBA? Many cheered when Ashcroft reversed this opinion of the former Clinton regime. Exactly how has this translated into revised enforcement practice?

I don't think it has. What about "Operation SAFE Neighborhoods?" ;)
 
Depends on whether you're talking about crimes committed with firearms (virtually all of which are, or should be, state matters), or the "crime" of possessing and trading in firearms. Seems to me that ATF is primarily concerned with the latter, which is why I think they're a BATF Out Of Hell.
Publius, there are many crimes committed in the latter area as well.

How many here are in favor of the concept of "enforcing the gun laws currently on the books"?

MR
 
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