Use LSWC data for CAST LSWC

[JFrameTwitch]

I have loaded thousands of speer 158gr LSWC over 3.2gr Red Dot.
Recently I came across a bunch of 158gr CAST LSWC.
Same Weight, Same Shape, Same Crimp Groove Location
Basically the question is can I use lead data for cast bullets?

 

[rogerstg]

Yes. They are all cast lead.

 

[rcmodel]

Speer LSWC are swaged soft lead.

The cast bullets are probably harder and can be driven harder if you want too.

rc

 

[Average Joe]

Yes

 

[sellersm]

+1 to what rcmodel stated. As usual, his advice is spot on!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Nothing left to do here I see. Don't forget the range report...

 

[JFrameTwitch]

Copy that. I was also able to get my hands on 3 pounds of titegroup last night. Anyone have any experience with this in 38 special? It says right on the bottle 3.2gr - 3.8gr under a 158gr LSWC. Any tips using the titegroup for 38 special?

Also, I have a bunch of 125gr LRFP. Hogdon's website lists the same data for this bullet 3.2gr - 3.8gr. Would this be a good bullet to try for a super low recoil round? Should I use titegroup or red dot (that's all I have or can get) to work up a minimum load? My wife wants to try my 642 but I know she will be immediately turned off if she shoots my normal load out of it, mild as it may be. Want to start with something even softer and work up if possible.

Last, I have a bunch of bullets of unknown origin. They are 38 special and are of what seems to be a plated hollow point design. They do not have a crimp groove on them. I have not loaded any 38 special bullets with no crimp groove, how do I crimp it. I only have a lee 4 die set for 38 special, does not seem like I would use the factory crimp die to apply a roll crimp if there is no groove. Thoughts?

 

[rogerstg]

Copy that. I was also able to get my hands on 3 pounds of titegroup last night. Anyone have any experience with this in 38 special? It says right on the bottle 3.2gr - 3.8gr under a 158gr LSWC. Any tips using the titegroup for 38 special?

FWIW, I normally use 3.4gr of Titegroup under a 158gr LWSC from Missouri Bullet Co. It's a pretty soft shooting load.

I loaded and shot a bunch at 3.2gr which shot softer but were not quite as accurate for me (could be me).

I also learned something about swaged bullets. Previously, I thought swaging was essentially sizing and shaping a cast blank.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Last, I have a bunch of bullets of unknown origin. They are 38 special and are of what seems to be a plated hollow point design. They do not have a crimp groove on them. I have not loaded any 38 special bullets with no crimp groove, how do I crimp it. I only have a lee 4 die set for 38 special, does not seem like I would use the factory crimp die to apply a roll crimp if there is no groove. Thoughts?

If those bullets are in fact plated you need to be careful crimping them. If you apply too deep a crimp you will break through the plating and ruin the bullets. You can use the Lee FCD but start with a very light crimp and add slowly until the bullets won't move when pushed against the bench.

Yes, I know revolver bullets don't set-back but it's a fairly good way to check the crimp without ruining the bullets trying to pull them!

I bought a Lee .38 Special taper crimp die for use with Speer shotshell capsules but I found that taper crimp die also works well on plated bullets.

 

[Sunray]

Swaged or cast, you use the same data. LSWC means Lead Semi Wad Cutter.
Plated bullets use cast bullet data. No crimp is needed.
You don't need a crimp for the 158's or the 125's. Crimping is only needed for heavy recoiling loads and lever actions.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Swaged or cast, you use the same data. LSWC means Lead Semi Wad Cutter.
Plated bullets use cast bullet data. No crimp is needed.
You don't need a crimp for the 158's or the 125's. Crimping is only needed for heavy recoiling loads and lever actions.

That's not always true. You at least need to iron out the bell added to the case to aid in starting the bullet. I would also add a little more to be sure the bullet doesn't pull.

 

[rcmodel]

Swaged or cast, you use the same data

No, you Do Not!

There is a huge difference in how much pressure & velocity a soft lead swaged bullet from Speer or Hornady can take, and what a hard cast grease lubed Linotype bullet from a mold can take.

Bad info if you are trying to tell everyone all lead bullets use the same data.

Because they can't, and don't.

If you are loading Speer or Hornady swaged lead, dry lubed bullets?
Use their data and don't exceed it!

If you are using cast lead bullets of known alloy hardness?
Gofer it to whatever Lyman says Max is.

But, I can GayRonTeeYa it will be way higher then you can drive a soft swaged lead commercial bullet!

rc

 

[Potatohead]

Plated bullets use cast bullet data.

I disagree with ^^^ Sunray's post here too (posted quite frequently I might add)

 

[Walkalong]

About plated data. From another thread.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9735782&postcount=9

 

[336A]

It really boils down to what cartridge your shooting. For example the MAX (+P) .38 SPL loading for a 158gr bullet for Unique is only one tenth of a grain difference between Speer and Lyman. The Speer data is of course for a swaged bullet while Lyman is for cast. Now if we're talking a magnum cartridge I would limit velocities to about 1,000fps with a swaged lead bullet. But for a low pressure cartridge such as the .38 SPL I haven't noticed any problems what so ever. I have used the Hornady swaged LSWC-HP with Lymans MAX (+P) data with no issues as have hundreds of folks before me.