Used model 37

[Bob F.]

Ran across an Ithaca Model 37 at a pawn shop the other day: bluing mostly gone, but no rust or serious pitting. Wood dinged but solid, plain barrel. Felt good, slimmer than an 870, silky action, good trigger Forgot to check the safety?!?! Crossbolt like the 870, right?

They also had a Wingmaster. Somebody had painted the metal black! Now my meat gun was all flat black at one time, but this was more like a bad bluing job!

Price about the same within a few bucks. I can refinish both the metal and wood to suit myself and shorten the barrel. Could I find an 18.5" for the 37? I did a nice job of hacksawing my "meat gun" but a 37's kinda sacred. Featherweight by the way.

Think I'd rather have the 37, anything special I need to check before plunking down cash? BTW, it's gonna be an HD shotty!

Mr. McC, looking forward to hear from ya'! (Can't shoot Sunday, I'm about 6 hrs away, I think. One of these days)

Thanks.
Bob

 

[Dave McCracken]

I'm no 37 expert(nor any other kind) but here goes...

Anything kitchen-tabled like that WM probably has been abused and tended by ignorami. Unless the price justifies getting something that WILL need work, I'd take a pass.

Any 870 vs 37 debate will run out of steam pretty fast. Both are great shotguns.

The 37's a little lighter, but the insides are as complicated as Sicilian politics.

870s have modular designs, and break down like Lego sets.

Both are capable of fast, sure operation.

Both triggers can be tweaked nicely if needed.

Both will out last Stonehenge if maintained.

Spare/extra barrels are available for both, though 37s below a certain serial number range need factory fitting.

I hate to hedge, but my advice is to get the one that feels best.

 

[Bob F.]

Thanks for the quick reply. man, I'd love to shoot with ya' sometime! Feel is pretty much what I was thinking, too. Gonna go study that 37! BTW, searched for old threadsincluding above TFL's and found a lot of info. You've posted some great stuff, both tech and stories!
Thanks, again.
Bob

 

[Badger Arms]

Bob:

Unlike Dave Mc870's impression, the trigger mechanism on the 37 is not complicated at all. The trigger guard/housing is all steel and everything is held in with pins which remain captive by the sides of the receiver. All that's needed is to relieve spring tension and push the darned springs out. Should never need to do this unless you feel lucky. Just spray it down with gun scrubber if it's dirty, then follow with a coat of good synthetic oil and blow it out with compressed air. Ithaca pumps are not quite as modular as the 870 in that you must remove the buttstock and barrel locating clamp in order to fully disassemble them. Then there's them little lock screws and bigger shell carrier screws. The right shell stop is held on by a TINY screw or pin depending on how old the gun is.

870's are Much easier to take down. Me, I'd still go for the Ithaca if given a choice. I've got a regular collection of them. They aren't the best thing since sliced bread, but I think they were the pinnacle of old-school gunmaking... all steel, no cast parts, quality wood, solid as a rock. Only complaints are of the slam-fire safety issue and an occasional action bar breaking.

Cutting the barrel is easy. I'd suggest taking the barrel to a gunsmith and having him remount the bead prior to the cutting operation. This makes it easier to find the center line of the barrel, so I'm told. Cutting can be done with a good hacksaw and miter box. Cleaning the end is as easy as this: use a jeweler's file to clean up any burrs and dress the end so it's square. Take a few rags and place them on the a hard surface. Place a 280-400 grit piece of dry sandpaper on top of the rags. With the palms of your hands, twist the muzzle into the rag-padded-sandpaper back and forth. After about a minute or so of this, look at the muzzle. It should be smooth and free of tool marks. Next, use a piece of Kraft paper (paper sack) instead of the sandpaper. This will polish the muzzle... REALLY! Ensure that the sandpaper and kraft paper do not curl up and take finish off the side of the barrel while you are doing this. The rags ensure full contact and give a little curve to the finish rounding off the sharp corners.

MEASURE TWICE, cut once and don't be a Randy Weaver.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Badger, The guts of a 37 LOOK much more complicated to me. I'm sure one can learn to navigate the insides.

Miter box and good hacksaw method works well. I've dressed the muzzle after with machinist's stones, crocus cloth and a tennis ball. Wrap a strip of CC around a tennis ball, push it into the muzzle and rotate it a bit. Cleans up the cut nicely. Kraft paper sounds good too, I've used it to strop knives.

Glad to help, Bob.

 

[Bob F.]

Bougt a cheap single bbl yrs ago. After a couple seasons of missing birds and rabbits, I decided I didn't like huting w/ a rifle (full choke 20ga.) Measured the bbl, wrapped w/ 2 lines of plastic elicrtical tape and ran a tubing cutter around the bbl to make a nice line that met at the start, then hacksawed on the line andfinished w/ emery cloth/crocus cloth. Dun OK!

Thanks, guys!

Stay safe!
Bob

 

[Badger Arms]

Dave:

Tennis ball! That's a great idea! I've always had more trouble with the inside of the crown than with the outside. I don't play with it too much as it's only a shotgun. Here's an example of my work... The picture on the right is the 'before' I cut an inch off this butcher job that I picked up cheap at a gun show. This was the subject of a thread about 6 months to a year ago Notice how unbeveled my cut on the inside is. Also note the results of bad planning on the "Ghetto Ithaca" muzzle on the right. When you cut, it's a good idea to wrap a few layers of masking or other tape around the area to be cut and go VERY carefully at first to avoid marking up the barrel. This could mean disaster if you don't have an extra inch or so to work with as I did:

 

[Dave McCracken]

I remember the Ghetto Ithaca thread. Good job.

And, 18" and a bit extra sounds better than 17.99" and five years on the hammer...

 

[Badger Arms]

Darnit, I still haven't gotten the bead on there. Here's the thread I was talking about if anybody else wants to take a look:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17135&highlight=Ghetto+Ithaca

 

[andrew1957]

Saw a nice Remington Model 10 the other day. Not much finish, but solid and a good price. I believe they are the same thing as the Model 37, except for the safety, which is a Garand type in the trigger guard.

 

[Badger Arms]

The Remington Model 10 is very fragile. It was probably the worst designed pump action of all time. My opinion, I'm sure there might be a worse one out there I haven't had the pain of working on.

 

[andrew1957]

I might be wrong, but i thought that John Browning designed the shotgun, then sold it to Remington. (Model 10) ...Remington then sold it to Ithaca.(Model 37)

 

[andrew1957]

Whoops...I looked it up and it said on gunsandammo.com that the Ithaca was developed from John Browning's "Remington Model 1917" I can't seem to find any info yet on the Model 1917...still looking..I have never heard of of a Model 1917...

 

[Badger Arms]

Try Remington Model 17. I've got one, beautiful gun. The Remington 1917 is a mislabeling of the US Model of 1917 Rifle made by Remington, Winchester, and the Eddystone factory (runn by Remington IIRC). Historically, the Remington Model 17 was designed by John Browning and John Pederson of the Pederson Device and Remington Model 51 as well as other well-known projects. Brownings patent was set to expire in 1932. Ithaca had made double-barrel shotguns for years and decided that they would make a repeater. They bought the patent to a repeating pump firearm and to the Union Arms Company model 60 Rights. They did this to prevent competition and did nothing with the patent or gun, to my knowledge.

They examined the market and decided that the Remington model 17 was the most appropriate design. They designed and tooled-up for the manufacture of the Ithaca Model 33P. Unfortunately for Ithaca, the Browning patent turned out to be only one of two patents covering the Remington 17. John Pederson did a "Read" on the Browning patent that was due to expire in 1937. When that second patent expired, Ithaca was free to manufacture what amounts to a virtual copy of the Remington 17. Remington even entered into discussions with Ithaca to sell them the tooling for the Remington 17 which was now out of production and Remington had no further interest.

Of interest also is the fact that Ithaca had their eye on production of yet another shotgun as well as the Remington 17. They had examined the Winchester Model 12 as well but found they were not able to begin production as soon as the Model 17 clone due to patent infringement concerns. The Ithaca 37 COULD have been a clone of the Winchester Model 12! Anyhow, here's a picture of the Remington Model 17: