used S&W 4043 (DAO) or stick with Taurus/Ruger .45

[355sigfan]

I'm sure you have seen several Smiths fail, all guns fail. It is hard to overlook that personal experience and not overgeneralize. Most S&W owners (especially with the 3rd gen guns) find them extremely reliable, many 100%. At the same time, the reason there are people who denegrate every brand is because EVERY brand fails from time to time. People have had Glocks fail, and someone who saw a few may badmouth them. SIGS, HKs, and many others fail. The experience of people with military guns cause many people to badmouth the Beretta. Keep in mind that police use, just like military use, of a gun is very hard on the gun.

I'll take CZs as another, more detalied, example. A quick look at a few of these boards will tell you that CZs are very reliable and they certainly are. However, they are certainly not infailable. A friend from TFL and THR who I got to know through PMs had many problems with his CZ 75B before he basically gave up on it ever being more than a range toy. Mine has between 5000 and 10000 rounds through it and has only had a handful of malfunctions (under 10). However, if you borrowed it the range session it had two in one session you'd probably have assumed it was junk. A buddy has done a lot of home smithing to his CZ 85 Combat. He's messed up some internal parts and needs to order some parts to fix it up. As a result of his playing around with it he's messed up the reliability until he replaces some parts. If you borrowed his gun at the range, or simply observed him, without knowlege of that fact you'd come to the conclusion that CZs were POC. There are many reasons one can have problems with a gun- a lemon, bad home smithing, numbers (any mechanical device will occasionally have problems, guns are no exception), the need for maintanence (say, worn springs). It would be easy to see some of those explainable problems and say the brand is bad, but in many/most cases you'd be wrong.

I look at the vast majority of owners posting on these sites who are happy with their S&W autos, and especially the 3rd gen autos, and I have confidence that they are good guns.

Alaska is hard on guns and cops even more so. So maybe the test is a bit unfair and difficult for causual shooters in the 48 to understand. But on the same firing line with Glocks, Sigs and 1911's I have seen the Smiths (4006 only) fail much more than the other brands. Usually they failed when the got dirty or when it was cold. But The Glocks and other brands did not stop under the same conditions. If your happy with your smith thats great. But other than the SW1911 I would not own one.
Pat

 

[The Reverend]

I have seen the Smiths (4006 only) fail much more than the other brands.

Ok mostly I just lurk here at THR, but this was too good to pass up. For years, S&W offered more variations on their pistol line up than any other manufacturer... period. So, the logic here is that if the 4006 was a failure than a 5906 certainly will be . I certainly cannot dispute anything a person says they have seen, but this is not reasoned logic and it is ultimately bad advice.

BTW, my 4506 and 4516 were extremely reliable and performed well in another "extreme" environment... the heavy salt environment, perspiration, and humidity of South Florida.

Usually they failed when the got dirty or when it was cold. But The Glocks and other brands did not stop under the same conditions.

News Flash kids... any and every gun will ultimately fail if they are not properly maintained. This will include GLOCK and even 1911s. Maybe a refresher in maintenance is in order. As far as the cold goes, this would be the first I've heard about a brand-wide failure just because of the temperature. I lived in Chicago for 5 years and saw many S&Ws riding on the hips of LEOs, even in the winter. Maybe the 4006 is a piece of junk in Alaksa, or maybe there is some brand snobbery afoot.

Blessings

 

[355sigfan]

News Flash kids... any and every gun will ultimately fail if they are not properly maintained. This will include GLOCK and even 1911s. Maybe a refresher in maintenance is in order. As far as the cold goes, this would be the first I've heard about a brand-wide failure just because of the temperature. I lived in Chicago for 5 years and saw many S&Ws riding on the hips of LEOs, even in the winter. Maybe the 4006 is a piece of junk in Alaksa, or maybe there is some brand snobbery afoot.

Blessings

News Flash kid the Glocks and 1911's on the line got the same treatment as the crap smiths and still kept running despite it. The Smiths did not. They are less tolerant of abuse and not being clean. You have to baby them to keep them working. Ie they suck and their leaving was celebrated by the Troopers.
Pat

 

[The Reverend]

News Flash kid the Glocks and 1911's on the line got the same treatment as the crap smiths and still kept running despite it. The Smiths did not. They are less tolerant of abuse and not being clean. You have to baby them to keep them working. Ie they suck and their leaving was celebrated by the Troopers.

I seem to remember a Discovery Channel documentary on some LAPD officers who couldn't complete their quals because of repeated FTFs (Beretta 92s). The weapons were inspected and lo and behold the pistols haden't been cleaned in months. Glad to see that trend has made it up the coast. Oops, I guess the Beretta 92 is crap as well. Can anyone report celebration since the LAPD went GLOCK?

ROFL!

 

[355sigfan]

So you are admitting that every Alaskan Trooper treated their sidearm the same... like trash and subsequently they failed. I'd be more than happy to ship you all some Hoppes #9 and some rags if it will help. God bless all the Troopers in Alaska who celebrated the departure of the S&W 4006 and still can't maintain their sidarms! IE the new standard of LE firearms procurment: Which weapons will we not have to take care of and still depend on?

ROFL!

Your missing the point rather they were treated like trash or not the GLocks and 1911's Sigs, Beretta's ext kept on working when the Smiths died. I don't know about you but I want a gun I can depend on without babying. I know of one Glock that an officer did not clean all year and put over 2000 rounds through and it kept working. That is not going to happen with a Smith. But by all means keep your finicky boat anchor.
Pat

 

[The Reverend]

Your missing the point rather they were treated like trash or not the GLocks and 1911's Sigs, Beretta's ext kept on working when the Smiths died. I don't know about you but I want a gun I can depend on without babying. I know of one Glock that an officer did not clean all year and put over 2000 rounds through and it kept working. That is not going to happen with a Smith. But by all means keep your finicky boat anchor.
Pat

Are all S&W's boat anchors or just the 4006??? I would stack my 4506, 4516-2, 5906, 6906 against anything out there from any maker in any environment. On the level, the 3rd generation line from S&W has an excellent reputaion and dominated the market in the late eighties and early ninties (at least in S. Florida). They all performed well with only the occaisional pistol that would go down, usually due to neglect. The broad brush approach that you are taking my friend is simply without merit.

BTW, any officer that would go out on a shift with a sidearm that hasen't been cleaned after 2000 rounds is crazy and irresponsible. Sure is comforting knowing he's up yonder with you.

 

[355sigfan]

Are all S&W's boat anchors or just the 4006??? I would stack my 4506, 4516-2, 5906, 6906 against anything out there from any maker in any environment. On the level, the 3rd generation line from S&W has an excellent reputaion and dominated the market in the late eighties and early ninties (at least in S. Florida). They all performed well with only the occaisional pistol that would go down, usually due to neglect. The broad brush approach that you are taking my friend is simply without merit.

BTW, any officer that would go out on a shift with a sidearm that hasen't been cleaned after 2000 rounds is crazy and irresponsible. Sure is comforting knowing he's up yonder with you.

Yes the officer should have kept his gun clean. But thats not the point the Glock worked. Smiths don't. I even purchased one of the trade in 4006's since the price was so cheap. I later sold it. It would run ok when clean but it would go to hell quick. There is a reason that Smith is a has been in the leo pistol market. I am glad you like your Smith but I will not trust one. Maybe I am being un fair but I can't ignore my experience. Buy what you like. As for me I will stick with Wilsons, Les Baers and Glocks and a few others.
Pat