Using Lee FCD w/ .434 oversize CB in 44mag??

[Bull Nutria]

I am using .434 cast bullets in my 44mag handi rifle. I recdently ordered the roll crimp factory crimp die for 44mag. this die has a sizing feature --that uses a carbide ring. would i be able to remove the sizing ring feature and still crimp my reloads with this die??

I don't want to reduce the diameter of my special order cast bullets as my bore is slightly oversized and will not shoot standard .430 factory or jacketed bullets in anything resembling a "group" .

However with these overzize cast bullets the rifle produces a 1 to 1.25 inch group at 50yds! i have tried 5 bullet weights 215,258, 289,301 and 315g in the oversizes and they all shoot the size group mentioned above with a different charge weight of 2400 of course!

Bull

 

[Sam1911]

I don't know about removing the carbide ring. I have a Lee FCD for .44 Mag/Spc and I quit using it because it accomplished nothing and I didn't like fighting cast bullets through it.

I make perfectly fine roll crimps using the seating dies, as was the traditional way. Just takes another step in the initial set-up.

 

[Seedtick]

would i be able to remove the sizing ring feature and still crimp my reloads with this die??

Yes.

I took one out of a 45 acp FCD. I tried to just drive it out but there wasn't much to get a bite on with a punch. So after I mangled all of my punches :banghead: I took a cutoff wheel and my Dremel and cut about an 1/8" off the mouth of the die. Then the carbide sizing ring came right out.

You will have a little more to work with so maybe you can just drive it out. There is a step that retains the crimping ring so don't cut off to much or there won't be anything to hold it in.

Seedtick

 

[Galil5.56]

Call/email Lee, and see if they will exchange it for one stamped "OS", for Over-Sized sizer insert.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Call/email Lee, and see if they will exchange it for one stamped "OS", for Over-Sized sizer insert.

Galil5.56 has the right idea. For $5.00 (I read on another forum) Lee will make the post-sizing carbide insert any diameter you specify. I imagine they will sell you a die without one if you want.

You can also, if you don't want the post-sizing function, simply use a regular seat/crimp die with the seating plug backed out.

Once you understand what the post-sizing ring is for, it is easy to determine if you want it or not. There is a poll on "TheFiringLine" forum trying to drum up support for a post-sizing ring that the owner can screw on and screw off which would permit a handloader to even have different sized post-sizing rings.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=465603

This poll was inspired by a lively thread discussing and cussing the Lee FCD.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=465091

John Lee himself even weighed in.

Lost Sheep

 

[Asherdan]

This is right down your alley.

Lee FCD with no carbide ring and a collet.

 

[Steve C]

The post sizer on the FC die is a max diameter sizer that only sizes portions of the case that is greater than SAAMI maximum diameter. You should try the die out first to see if its sizing down the portion of the case where the bullet shank is rather than just removing the sizing ring right away. Unless the bullet is bulging the case and the cases are over diameter you should have no problems with the die as is. If you are getting a bit of bulging below the bullet base that is common if using a over sized bullet compared to the expander diameter the post sizing die should only touch that portion below the bullet base and not affect your bullet diameter at all.

If you are going to knock out the post sizing ring there is absolutely no point in buying a FC die and you may well crimp with the supplied seating die or buy another standard seating die for less money than the FC die and simply remove the seating stem or back it out fully to use in crimping only.

 

[Bull Nutria]

thanks again fellas, i don't know what i did with all my questions before the internet!! this forum is like having a panel of reloading experts sitting around my loading bench!! the internet is a very powerful tool to have in ones tool box!

I really enjoy reading other posters questions as much as i do my own questions and answers!

Bull

 

[Sam1911]

You should try the die out first to see if its sizing down the portion of the case where the bullet shank is rather than just removing the sizing ring right away. Unless the bullet is bulging the case and the cases are over diameter you should have no problems with the die as is.

On the .44 dies, the Lee FCD seems to be sized to work smoothly with .429" jacketed bullets. I know from extensive use that it does catch/snag on cartridges loaded with cast bullets which usually run .430"-.431". These are cartridges that chamber perfectly and work very well without the post-sizing, but the FCD wants to squeeze them down just the same. I deleted it because I wore my arm out forcing them all through, and I didn't care for whatever reduction it was applying to my bore-filling bullets.

If he's moving up all the way to .434" bullets, then jamming them through the standard FCD is merely removing the benefit he's paying for in using the larger diameter.

Now I do completely agree with this:

If you are going to knock out the post sizing ring there is absolutely no point in buying a FC die and you may well crimp with the supplied seating die or buy another standard seating die for less money than the FC die and simply remove the seating stem or back it out fully to use in crimping only.

 

[Walkalong]

Thousands of reloaders over the years have loaded 100's of thousands of rounds of pistol calibers from .32 ACP to .45 Colt without the FCD and without failures to feed, fire, or eject.

There are plenty of crimp only dies that crimp as well as the FCD that can be used to crimp in a fourth step. Lee makes them as well. There is nothing magic about the crimping feature of the FCD.

The one application where the FCD seems to be a good idea is IDPA etc, where the reloader is more concerned about an out of spec round getting through and a failure to feed during competition than the finest accuracy. They do not want to take the time to gauge each loaded round and the FCD eliminates the need to do so.

 

[Sam1911]

The one application where the FCD seems to be a good idea is IDPA etc, where the reloader is more concerned about an out of spec round getting through and a failure to feed during competition than the finest accuracy. They do not want to take the time to gauge each loaded round and the FCD eliminates the need to do so.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

That's exactly why I keep them in my .45ACP and 9mm toolheads.

 

[mdi]

For shooting "oversize" cast bullets, lose the FCD. Besides I had been reloading .44 Magnum and Special for several years, with no chambering or crimping problems. I guess I just wanted to see what one would do,so I bought a FCD. I used it once. I loaded up 10 rounds, 5 dummies and 5 with unique and 265 gr cast FN. I pulled the 5 dummies and measured the bullet. They went around .430", down from .432", which is definately too small for my Puma Carbine (.432"+ groove dia.). If the sizing ring is knocked out, the Lee FCD does nothing the plain old Lee roll crimp die won't do, so I just got another crimp die 'cause I seat and crimp in 2 operations...

 

[Bull Nutria]

Sam1911,Walkalong, et al,

Thanks i should have ask this question before i order the FCDs. I aim to return them hopefully for credit. I just loaded 30 rounds of .434 cast bullets by using the method someone suggested. i seated the bullets first with the crimp feature non functional. when i got them seated correctly with the crimping groove i readjusted the seating stem up out of the way and adjusted the seating feature by screwing the die gradually down until i got the crimp i wanted. worked really nice, i learned something and made better reloads by separating the 2 steps.

you guys know some good stuff and thanks for helping out as haven't loaded that many revolver rounds( correctly) and am appreciative of all of your comments and suggestions.

Bull

 

[Steve C]

I pulled the 5 dummies and measured the bullet. They went around .430", down from .432", which is definately too small for my Puma Carbine (.432"+ groove dia.).

mdi, just curious. Did you happen to pull a bullet seated in the same brand case that was crimped and seated using the normal procedure used and measure it to see how much the bullet diameter shrunk being forced into a case of smaller ID? This would have given you a base line to see if the FC die was the reason the bullets that where pulled where reduced to .430".

A lot of people say the FC die sizes down cast bullets but I've never read where anyone who claims this has done a empirical comparison to support the claim or determined by how much more the FC reduces the bullet diameter.

 

[Lost Sheep]

mdi, just curious. Did you happen to pull a bullet seated in the same brand case that was crimped and seated using the normal procedure used and measure it to see how much the bullet diameter shrunk being forced into a case of smaller ID? This would have given you a base line to see if the FC die was the reason the bullets that where pulled where reduced to .430".

A lot of people say the FC die sizes down cast bullets but I've never read where anyone who claims this has done a empirical comparison to support the claim or determined by how much more the FC reduces the bullet diameter.

I did not take measurements, but I do know that if you size down a case with a lead bullet in it, you reduce the friction grip the case has on the bullet. Here's what I did:

This was for my .357 Dan Wesson I loaded some lead bullets in nickled brass cases (with RCBS 3-die set). I found they bulged the cases slightly, and enough that they would not chamber in my Dan Wesson. Rather than pull them, I ran them through the sizing die again. (Please don't write that this was unsafe. I know the risks, but did not know them then. Besides, I don't think the risk is that great, even now.)

After this "post-sizing" the roll crimp originally applied still held the bullets, but now I could turn the bullets in the cases with my fingers, where before, the friction between the bullet and the case made that impossible.

Obviously, the lead bullets were sized down when the brass was sized down. The brass, being more elastic than lead, sprang back more than the lead, thus the "grip" of the brass on the lead was not as tight. On those roll-crimped, medium power, fast powder .357 rounds, this was not a problem. On cartridges that needed a lot of bullet pull (as with slow powders or high-recoiling loads) or taper-crimp rounds, I might have had problems.

I quit using nickled cases after that and eventually (25 years later) got some calipers.