Using reloads to proof my CCW, couple questions...

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1TwistedGimp

1TwistedGimp

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As stated in the title I'm proofing my CCW (Sig P-938) with my reloads.
I got to thinking (I know that's dangerous) that instead of buying 6-7 factory brands to proof this sig I'd just reload some mixed brass with the projectiles I have on hand. I know I should sort by brand but felt it would be a good test for feed and extraction reliability.
So far I've had 2 malfunctions with the 938, the first I encountered was the slide stop backing out and locking the slid on feed part of cycle, I was actually using the last of the factory rounds I had when this happened. First time this had live ammo running thru it and I blame myself as I had stripped , cleaned/lubed prior to taking to the range and possibly hadn't re-inserted it fully. That happened within the first 25 rounds and hasn't happened since, about 300 downrange with it so far.
The next malfunction was with one of my reloads (mixed brass, hornady 115gr fmj rn over 6gr Imr sr 4756).
FTE and the case had resistance in the chamber, felt it drag while extracting by hand, was a busy day at the range and the dang case got away from me so I didn't get to inspect it...
I weigh every charge by hand and measure every completed round I make right now because I have only been reloading for about a month and am kinda anal anyway...
What I've noticed while reloading: at first using sorted brass my loads were very consistent, oal between 1.124 - 1.126 and mouth diameter .379-.380.
Loading the mixed brass obviously is going to give me a wider range of variance but I felt I was close enough with oal ranging between 1.122-1.128 and mouth diameter between .3785-.380 with an occasional .381... the .381 passed the plunk test so I left it unaltered.
Question is what could've caused the FTE? I have never encountered a case that had resistance upon extraction like this, I stopped and stripped/inspected for squib even though report was normal as was recoil but this has me stumped. I haven't encountered any other problems with the 450 reloads I've used up...
Press is a SS hornady LNL, I do batches of 50 at a time and I'm meticulous, I use an old baby spoon to trickle my loads directly on the scale and look at every charge in every case on the block before proceeding to seat the bullets.
I've measured all my brass (told ya I am anal) case lengths varies from .744-.750. Remington brass is the shortest and is all once fired by me. The rest is once fired range pickup of various brands excluding remington, I am positive its once fired as I always ask and offer to sweep up the lane for it as they don't reload.
Question: could case length variance be enough to cause the problem I encountered, if so why has it not happened since?
Hope you guys can shed some light, was probably dumb of me to attempt to proof it in this way but it seemed like a good idea at the time.

1TG
 
This is not going to be much help but there are just to many variables going on. Anything would just be guessing. New gun, new reloader, different brass unknown projectile?

Could be one thing or several.

I would clean the gun and then load up some loads of the same brass and experiment with slight changes in the OAL I have never used 4756 in 9mm or any caliber so can not say if the powder has any affect. Hodgdon lists a lead bullet load for it.

Yes, it will cost money but I would just try and run a box of factory ammo through it. If that works then it narrows down the situation.

Edit: Also want to add that you may want to try 124 gr bullets. I do not have that model but other Sigs have stout recoil springs and heavy slides. I had a problem with the Berreta Nano, the first ones out did not like 115 grain. It would only function with 124, Sent it back to the factory and they did whatever, so it shoots anything now,
 
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I agree that I've got a large # of variables here, I appreciate your response. So far I've run at least 3 brands of factory ammo thru this 938, pdx1 +p, hydroshok and the remmington umc. So far this tiny 938 gobbles everything without fail, with the exception of this one round.
I'm not freaking out or anything but I am wondering what happened here.
Probably, like you said, just too many things going on here to even hazard a guess.
Projectiles, charge, primers are all same for every round, only brass is mixed.
Projectiles are hornady 115gr FMJ RN
Charge is 6.0gr IMR SR4756
Primers are CCI 500
I don't mind sorting brass and will from now on but I find it annoying to come up short a few cases here and there when running a batch not to mention resetting the dies for every different brand of brass.
 
I was able to locate some 125gr sierras HP bullets to load with and all of the factory defensive ammo I have is 124gr, manual states that the 938 was designed around the 124gr bullet so I'm trying to stay with that for my carry purposes. My neighbor gave me some components (berrys 115gr plated rn, used up now) I have only been able to find 115gr projectiles locally and just yesterday received my free bullets from hornady (500 115gr XTP JHP) so far I've encountered no problems with 115gr bullets with this one exception which to me seems odd like possibly a neck tension issue due to variances in case length...
I haven't loaded anything else up and still have about 250 of these mixed case batches waiting to go to the range...

1TG
 
"Proof?". Normally this refers to firing an over pressure round to ascertain safety with normal loads. What do you mean? In one sentence, please.
 
If you have fired it as much as you say and only had one failure, I would not worry about it, I know, I am the same way you have that little nagging question still in your mind.:) I figured proof meant testing and verifying.

You will never know what caused the one malfunction.

Stay with the 124 grain bullets, it may need the extra weight to function properly.

The true test is fire several magazines of the ACTUAL ammo you plan on carrying, If it functions fine then. you are good, Sound like you shot it enough to let it loosen up or "break in" I hate that term. A gun should function out of the box. The trigger may smooth out some but not malfunction.

A master gunsmith told me once that continuing to fire a firearms that does not work correctly will not fix it.:D

Then the company will say you limp wristed it. Send it back to Sig and they will "polish" the feed ramp and say it's fixed.:rolleyes:

Kahr is the worst, you need to put 250 rounds through it before they will talk to you!
 
I apologize to all for my long posts, I am just trying to provide as much info as possible to avoid confusion and hopefully ascertain what if anything I'm doing wrong.
Maybe the case was "bad" or maybe having the die set for a case that is .006 longer isn't "crimping" the mouth tight and thus not allowing the pressure to build correctly but for the life of me can't figure out why the case would expand as much as it felt like it did...
 
Without the case, it is impossible to determine the cause at this late date.

We are seeing some brands of cases with an internal ledge to prevent bullet set-back.

Maybe it was one of those?
If you seated deeper then the internal ledge, it would for sure cause a bulge in the case.

If you ever have a reload problem like that in the future?
It is impeditive you find the round and bring it home for closer inspection.

rc
 
Rule3,
That is exactly what I meant by "proofing" it.
I am not really concerned as far as reliability goes, so far the 938 is dead nutz reliable as far as I'm concerned, no failures with either of the carry ammo I've selected, all 124gr and at least 50 of each tested for reliability.
The 115gr I have is strictly range practice ammo as I see no reason to load my own PD ammo. That may change after Saturday when the wife and I complete our CHL class but I doubt it. I have 100 rounds of the pdx and of the hydroshoks which I believe is plenty more than I'll ever need.

Like you said I have this nagging thought that I'm trying to address and probably doesn't amount to much if anything.

1TG
 
rcmodel,

I agree, I'm kicking myself for letting that case escape. In the future I'll be much more careful to police any problem brass. This indoor range has lanes all of 2 1/2 feet wide and keeping track of brass is problematic at times. For all I know it could be in my bucket on the bench right now :barf:
 
I'd say you're going so far above and beyond normal care in loading these that it seems highly unlikely the failure had anything to do with your process. And if it "plunked" it should have extracted.

But sometimes things happen. Keep running ammo through it and see if you notice any other errors. If so, keep much better track of the case and see if you can see a torn rim or some other oddball problem.

FWIW, I've never seen a case with a set-back step, and I only load random range-pick-up brass, so I'm very curious about that.
 
From what I can gather I offer this opinion. Despite being very careful, you light loaded the one round. Not a squib, light enough to blow the bullet out of the barrel, but not enough to cycle the action. You said you had to pull back on the slide to extract the round. The drag you felt was due to case expansion from the light charge. Are you checking each powder charge with a bright flashlight? Do so with all 50 rounds in a loading block. Slowly comparing each round's powder level to the round on either side makes light or heavy loads pop out visually.
Another tip. Inspect the inside of each case with that same bright light prior to priming. Look to see flash holes are clear and no other junk such as cleaning media or spider webs (yes!) is in the case. The ledge rc mentioned would be apparent as well.


Sam, That brass is headstamped "AMMOLOAD" and has been seen in 9mm and .40.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-719951.html
 
Sam,
Thank you for responding, am curious about this ledge thing as well. I have some nickle plated cases that I weed out and quite a few have a line around the outside but haven't noticed anything inside the case... Do you load random cases as well? If so, how does that work out for you?

I am trying very hard to learn everything I can and be very careful as I learn the process. I want to buy more components and dies and brand new brass BUT have been picking up manuals instead to have more info available to me and because I am also fascinated by this hobby... I now have hornady's 9th, lymans pistol, hogdons basic and speer #14, also have the lee manual ordered. There's still a couple more id like but money is tight with 3 kids and christmas right around the corner.
 
I would load whatever brass I had that passes inspection and shoot it. Practice a few malfunction drills while you are at it. There are few guarantees in life and a personal defense weapon that never fails isn't one of them. I would suggest buying a couple boxes of HP ammo, but I just load my own and consider the use of a deadly weapon to preserve my life to be just what it is..deadly. It doesn't matter who loaded the 'bullets' since they are all 'deadly' by nature.

P.S. I have never used that powder so I can't recommend it. I prefer Winchester 231 for 9mm practice ammo. I use 4.6 grains of W231 with a 115 fmj set at 1.125" oal with any SPP or any case.
 
Moxie,
I know that is a possibility, I am not enamored with the scale that came with the kit, hornady gs 1500 I believe. Seems erratic sometimes, passes with the check weight but if you push the bowl around weights vary up to 4 tenths of a grain. I'm very careful to place it as centered as possible and tare it between every charge. Lighting on my bench is very good with the 250 watt halogen lamp directly over the bench I find it very easy to see inside the case and visually inspect the powder level but I realize what you are saying is still quite possible and also very good advice. I'm not sure I could tell the difference if I was .5 gr light.
I worked up to the 6gr from 5.3 and decided to stick in the middle between min and max due to my concern that this scale might not be the greatest.
All charges are measured to be either dead on 6gr or get dumped back and I start over again after zeroing out the scale.
You are right though I am not perfect and could've missed one.

1TG
 
I went through the 200 round recommended break in for my Kahr CW9 with an assortment.
About 50 factory JHP, 50 factory FMJ, 100+ reloads.
I had zero malfunctions with factory.
I had one misfire, likely a high primer on a reload.
I had a few failures to slide lock on the last round with mild IDPA subsonics. None with ball equivalent reloads.
I consider the gun "proofed." Absent that one high primer, it would get through a magazine of anything I put in it then or since.
 
4895,
I do have factory hp's and have run 50 of each of the two brands thru to test reliability, I also still have 100 rounds of each set aside for carry. Both the wife and I practice malfunction drills with snap caps or dummy rounds I made up. Very good advice!
I try to have the proper mindset and training/skill before I need it to save my life :D
 
That line around the case is a "case cannelure." It's on some of the premium ammo and is intended to aid in preventing setback. It basically goes away after you resize the case a few times. You can still see it but it's lost it's functionality.

And remember to inspect the charged cases in the loading block so you can compare. Very important.
 
Great advice everybody! I'm lucky to have this forum to turn to for advice!
Id like to add that I clean all my primer pockets and double check that they're clear at the very least. I don't have a cleaner as of yet and with the small amounts of brass I process I just throw em in a plastic coffee container with a few drops of soap, some sea salt, and dash of vinegar and shake them around for 3-5 min then rinse and lay out on a baking sheet with some paper towels and let them air dry for a couple days. Then I inspect for anything unusual... works ok for now but in the future id like a cleaner...
 
Moxie,
I was pretty sure that was its function, now I know what to call it :)
I do exactly as you say, I charge all 50 cases and look for abnormalities under bright light before continuing. That don't mean I didn't miss something but I am very careful, every block I do even gets random charge re-weighs just for peace of mind.
I have read this forum off and on for the last 11 years and try to follow the "best practices" I read from you more experienced reloaders... I really like my hands and eyes!
 
I have some nickle plated cases that I weed out and quite a few have a line around the outside but haven't noticed anything inside the case...
Click to expand...
There have always been certain cases that are marked with a faint ring of dimples around the outside of the case. No one seems to know exactly why and makers seem to produce them with and without in different years. That doesn't have anything to do with a set-back ledge inside the case.

Do you load random cases as well? If so, how does that work out for you?
Click to expand...
I've never purchased a 9mm casing in my life, or any 9mm factory ammo. Nearly the same with .45ACP. That's most of what I shoot, so yeah, random range-pickup brass has been working for me for a very long time. I've got .45 cases so beat you can't read the headstamps. I've got 9mm cases so tarnished they look black even after tumbling. They all load and fire the same.

Nickle cases seem to crack at the mouth a few loadings sooner than unplated brass, but if so I toss them when I notice them. I've even fired a few rounds that were loaded into cracked cases by accident, and while I don't recommend that (at all!) it never caused a problem.
 
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