(UT) Firearms Banned from LDS Church Buildings

[mowgli]

I am going to look pretty foolish standing off church property holding a protest sign if one of my cousins dies or gets married.

(UT) Firearms Banned from LDS Church Buildings

 

[444]

I never saw that one coming.

I wonder what J.M.B. is thinking right now in the celestial kingdom ?

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

This ought to open up a can of worms

 

[c_yeager]

I only know a few mormons but not a single one of them is going to be really happy about this. Who's bright idea was it?

 

[mowgli]

Near as I can tell it is the product of new legislation sponsored by Senator Mike Waddoups (District 6- West Jordan) which was passed by the Utah Legislature.

The BCI of Utah mentions it here:
Utah BCI Homepage

As far as I can tell it allows churches to ask that their names be added to a list here : The Utah BCI Houses of Worship Prohibiting Firearms List

Then carrying a gun on the premises of the church becomes illegal.

Here is the link to another news service's story: KUTV LDS Church Bans Guns story

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

I think Salt Lake and environs should be moved to the Californistan.

 

[HABU]

I wonder what J.M.B. is thinking right now in the celestial kingdom ?

JMB is not in the CK, not yet anyway.

This legislation bites.

It looks like this is just a Utah thing. I didn't see where the church specifically said they were going to make this policy church-wide, not that they wont.

 

[El Tejon]

Please forgive my ignorance, but does not LDS require armed readiness by its members? Thought there was a requirement or at least urging to be armed?

Used to work in LE with a LDS member. He mentioned a "ready pack" or something and a supply of food. Goes back to the massacre in Illinois?

 

[tiberius]

Isn't it private property? Nothing wrong with protesting in order to get them to change their policy, but if they don't there's lots of churches out there.....

 

[AZRickD]

Ah, so LDS is now in violation of its Doctrines And Covenants?

An LDS gunnie friend gave me the heads-up on this as we were engaged in a public battle with an LDS (former state Speaker of the House, Mark Killian) who was at the time, the head of the Arizona Dept of Revenue. He would not allow a rape victim employee of his to check her gun with security as allowed by law.

This guy:



See UAVZUnarmedVictimZone

From www.kingdomofzion.org

Doctrines and Covenants.

Conference Report, October 1939, p.11
We believe that governments were instituted of God for the benefit of
man; and that he holds men accountable for their acts in relation to
them both in making laws and administering them, for the good and
safety of society. We believe that no government can exist in peace,
except such laws are framed and held inviolate as will secure to each
individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of
property and the protection of life. (D. and C. 134:1-2).

Conference Report, October 1939, p.11
Thus we can stand for no cause and can support no state fostering a
cause that would seek to compel the consciences of men, that would set
up the state as deity, that would destroy private property, that
bulwark of a peaceful, stable ordered society, indeed of civilization
itself, that would make men slaves of the state to the destruction of
all safety, due protection of life and limb, and all individual
liberty, that would blot out the Christian home.

See also David Kopel "Does God believe in gun control?"

Rick

 

[Standing Wolf]

I guess people's lives aren't worth defending in churches.

 

[skyder]

I would like to know why and how this came about. What caused the change? The Church had seemed to be taking a sidelines position on the issue, and now for them to go along with the BCI rules and ban carry has me puzzled. Are there problems with guns in churches?
I can wholly support idea that there is no real need for a gun in church. But what about the getting to and going home from church? Where does the gun go between arriving and leaving? Can she just keep it in her purse and hope for the best?

 

[mowgli]

Here is a link to the actual letter from the church.

The SL Tribune article with the actual LDS Church letter

For the record, I don't think the BCI is encouraging anyone to ban anything. I have always had good experiences with them. I think in this case the information on their website only reflects what the People on the Hill tell them to do.

 

[Shooter973]

Firearms banned in LDS church.

Is it just me or did I miss the BIG problems that have been cropping up with LDS members and guns in church? I've never seen any problems in my ward. What about the Avenging Angels from the past? Sorry just irritated about this.

 

[cratz2]

I've been friends with members of three very strong Mormon families in both Texas and Indiana... In general, my experience is that they have been very well armed.

Even though they had already excluded me from a few buildings.

 

[Quartus]

Based on watching the LDS church's conduct (the organization - not the individual members) I'd say they've been very effectively soccer mommed. Not sure when or how it happened, but the leaders have been looking more and more like liberals.

 

[George Hill]

I'm very irritated at this.
Being Mormon, this affects me directly. In the past 10 years I've carried at church frequently... and to 3 different Temples.
Then they pull this.... nice.
:banghead:

 

[LiquidTension]

That David Kopel piece was excellent! I'm not even a Christian

 

[Quartus]

George, what's your take on my comment? I'm an outsider, but having lived in Salt Lake for 3 1/2 years I did keep up with what was going on vis a vis the LDS and politics. Seemed to me the leadership was pretty weak in that area.

I don't say that as an attack on Mormons - from what I saw that did NOT represent the rank and file.

 

[Goet]

This makes me sick.

However, I'm not too surprised. Lately the church has become very namby pamby and side stepped very important opportunities to make statements in hopes of not offending the PC police.



I can only wonder.....

 

[Dave R]

Yup. I wonder what John Moses Browning would say about this.

I also wonder what Porter Rockwell would say about this.

Scratch that. I have a pretty good idea what he'd say.

 

[BHPshooter]

I'm irate. I'm so irate I hardly slept last night (when I found out). What gripes me off most is that the position they're taking goes against the teachings of the church.

For example:

(Alma 43:47) And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed. Therefore for this cause were the Nephites contending with the Lamanites, to defend themselves, and their families, and their lands, their country, and their rights, and their religion.

Or how about these?

(James 2:20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

(James 2:26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Yeah... as if you can't tell, I strongly disagree, and I'm still upset to the point that I can't see straight.

:banghead:
Wes

 

[Porter Rockwell]

George Is Curiously Quiet!?

George,
as a Morman and a Mod here many are watching YOUR LEAD.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

What I Should Have Asked George Was-

We all know the Why of this matter George..
Who-What-When?
I believe through prayer that you may well be chosen to find a path of absolution for the stiff necked pretenders who dare bend, no stamp on our founders graves and our Lords own commands.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Isn't it a great feeling when two strong beliefs all of the sudden come in conflict?

It's just as clear as any other gun ban out there... even allowing for an exemption for the police because they can always be trusted. Yet, if you're a devout mormon then you have to believe that this particular gun ban is divine revelation from God.



I think we all knew this was coming when that "pro-gun" bill passed last fall to clear up the state code. Anyways, what are the penalties for CCW holders that break this law and get caught? The link to the actual code on the BCI site is coming up not found.