UT Tower shooting - 55 years ago

[Armybrat]

Actually Officer Houston McCoy was with Officer Martinez that day and they both fired on Whitman.

The “civilian”, a bookstore manager, Retrieved his handgun from his car and went up the Tower elevator where he met the two officers. He went around one direction and fired a shot at Whitman to distract him.
Then from the other direction McCoy shot Whitman in the head with his shotgun as Martinez emptied his service revolver into him. Martinez grabbed the shotgun and pumped more rounds into the sniper who was probably dead by then.
Martinez got most of the credit (a young family man) and McCoy was almost ignored by the media even though his initial hit probably killed Whitman. Martinez went on to a career in the DPS (and as a Ranger, I think), while McCoy had a rough time later with the booze.
That’s the way I recall the story that was reported afterwards.

 

[Armybrat]

The Deadly Tower 1975 starring Kurt Russel as Whitman and ned Beatty as Crum. I have a copy on VHS somewhere. It's available on streaming and on DVD on Amazon.

And the incident was, of course, referenced in Full Metal Jacket.

That movie, filmed on the LSU campus in Baton Rouge because Texas wouldn’t allow it at the real site, was panned quite a bit by Austinites because Hollywood took some liberties (APD officers wearing cowboy hats, for example). I don’t remember much of it.

 

[AlexanderA]

I was too - summer school taking Civil War history with Dr. Lathrop.

Small world! In the fall of 1969 (after finishing law school), I took a graduate seminar in early American history from Prof. Lathrop. My term paper was about the business career of Samuel Colt.

 

[Slamfire]

I remember that, it was big news. A big shock to the Nation, mass murders by a sniper on a school campus, just beyond the pale.

Now, how many people were shot in Chicago and New York city last weekend? Does anyone really care, does it make the National News, and get put into Life Magazine with pictures of the wounded and dead? Nope. My, has not time changed?.

 

[scaatylobo]

The Deadly Tower 1975 starring Kurt Russel as Whitman and ned Beatty as Crum. I have a copy on VHS somewhere. It's available on streaming and on DVD on Amazon.

And the incident was, of course, referenced in Full Metal Jacket.

Thank you,I will look for the DVD of that movie.
And I have been a huge fan of D.B.Cooper since he did his little thing.
And that is really funny as I was an LEO ,and yet got a kick out of the "Robin Hood" thing he pulled.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Remember seeing film of it on TV here in the Northeast at the time. Much was made of the autopsy discovering the brain tumor, recall hearing that at one time Whitman was the youngest Eagle Scout, my mother said he was probably pushed too hard. Subsequent investigation revealed that Whitman's father was very abusive and he had a rather poor record in the Marines, several disciplinary actions and demotions.

 

[Armybrat]

I remember that, it was big news. A big shock to the Nation, mass murders by a sniper on a school campus, just beyond the pale.

Now, how many people were shot in Chicago and New York city last weekend? Does anyone really care, does it make the National News, and get put into Life Magazine with pictures of the wounded and dead? Nope. My, has not time changed?.

View attachment 1015821

I have a copy of that Life magazine.

 

[GEM]

Remember seeing film of it on TV here in the Northeast at the time. Much was made of the autopsy discovering the brain tumor, recall hearing that at one time Whitman was the youngest Eagle Scout, my mother said he was probably pushed too hard. Subsequent investigation revealed that Whitman's father was very abusive and he had a rather poor record in the Marines, several disciplinary actions and demotions.

There were three threads of causality proposed, worth what you paid for it in an after action analysis of a dead man.

1. He had an abusive father that he was paying back. He killed his mom and left a nasty note to his dad about that.
2. He had a brain tumor in an area that might promote aggression and reduce inhibitions to violence
3. He was trained as a shooter by the Marines, giving him the skills and perhaps reducing the social inhibitions against violence and perhaps promoting a violent solution, and a warror's death paradigm.

They all might sum and interact. However, how will we ever know?

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

They all might sum and interact. However, how will we ever know?

The thing is, a "normal" person will never, can never, understand this behavior. It's the product of some quirk, some slippage of gears, that makes someone do these things. Even if we knew what the cause was, we couldn't understand the why.

It's like asking a cow to understand a locomotive. The cow knows that something is there, but that's it.

Some things are just beyond our ken.

 

[GEM]

No, we can try to understand the factors involved. It is important to do such as we are trying to come up with pre-attack indicators.

Here's a pretty good summary of what the current state is.
https://www.police1.com/active-shoo...ail&utm_term=0_5584e6920b-170ece84c8-83999136

Since at least 50 plots (probably more by now) have been nipped in the bud, it is worthwhile to pursue such.

I

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

Yet, how many times, at the end of a long article about some just-happened attack on a crowd, do we see something like
"...his mother contacted the FBI a year ago and warned them of her concerns, but ..."

Or
"His friends are not surprised about this behavior, having come to authorities with warnings, but..."

This seems to happen all to often.

BTW, being able to foresee an event is different than understanding why an event happens.

 

[Insignificant bill]

Yet, how many times, at the end of a long article about some just-happened attack on a crowd, do we see something like
"...his mother contacted the FBI a year ago and warned them of her concerns, but ..."

Or
"His friends are not surprised about this behavior, having come to authorities with warnings, but..."

This seems to happen all to often.

BTW, being able to foresee an event is different than understanding why an event happens.

Mental issues brought on by a brain tumor. He had been seeing a Psychiatrist but was not properly diagnosed.

 

[Joel Lehman]

https://abc13.com/ut-tower-shooting-university-of-texas-charles-whitman-austin/10923235/

No mention of those who retrieved their own weapons and shot back…

I live in Austin Texas. t
That day I called my father and asked him if I could take my 30-06 and shoot at the tower. He said no way, stay home. A schoolmate of mine was killed.

 

[rabid wombat]

A schoolmate of mine was killed.

We are all sorry…

 

[Armybrat]

I live in Austin Texas. t
That day I called my father and asked him if I could take my 30-06 and shoot at the tower. He said no way, stay home. A schoolmate of mine was killed.

A family friend was shot through the hand as she bent over to help her two high school friends who had just been shot dead next to her on the Drag.

 

[AlexanderA]

I believe that most of the casualties took place in the early minutes of the shooting, before people realized exactly where the shots were coming from. Subsequently, two things happened: (a) people took cover, and (b) the gunman was suppressed (unable to fire over the parapet and limited to shooting through the drainage holes) because of all the return fire. At one point, there was even a light airplane circling the Tower, with the passenger firing at the gunman. (This must have been dangerous for the plane, because of all the ground fire.)

 

[Ranger99]

I remember when all that happened, and
I've read quite a few reports and accounts
of it
JMHO- it's not about any training, or access
to firearms, or any of the usual reasons or
excuses given.
To me, it's as much about enabling that
happened as anything. His father was extremely abusive to the whole family, and
Whitman had a record of erratic and abusive
behavior throughout his life and military
career and marriage. He used drugs extensively to avoid fatigue and had
paranoid delusions of people out to cheat
him, etc.
Pretty much the same as some I personally know of that look the other way and enable
family and friends for various reasons
when the behavior and lifestyle of those
family and friends isn't legal or moral etc.
I would elaborate more extensively, but
I don't want to get banned for offending
sensibilities

 

[vito]

I think for most people alive at that time, this was the first "mass shooting" that they had ever heard of. I was on active duty at the time in El Paso, TX and do not recall hearing single instance of anyone, in or out of the media, using the shooting as a call for gun control. Whitman was also, allegedly, the first Eagle Scout to ever be guilty of a felony, let alone murder. The Boy Scouts, in promoting the value of becoming an Eagle Scout, used to mention that it was such a strong indicator of character that no Eagle Scout had ever been convicted of any felony.

FWIW, Harry Chapin did a song about the incident but without using Whitman's name. The song was called "Sniper" and without evidence, claimed that it was a result of him being neglected by his mother. I was a big Chapin fan but always felt he did a disservice with that song.

 

[AlexanderA]

.... and do not recall hearing single instance of anyone, in or out of the media, using the shooting as a call for gun control.

That's right. Mass shootings weren't a pattern yet. The landmark Gun Control Act of '68 wasn't prompted by a mass shooting, but rather by a series of single assassinations (JFK, RFK, MLK).

 

[rabid wombat]

the first Eagle Scout to ever be guilty of a felony, let alone murder. The Boy Scouts, in promoting the value of becoming an Eagle Scout, used to mention that it was such a strong indicator of character that no Eagle Scout had ever been convicted of any felony.

@vito….I am not a lawyer, nor have the Holiday Inn thing…by definition, Whitman died [strike - innocent] not guilty, as he was not adjudicated in court (think Oswald, too). Not saying he did not do it…just parsing words. I hope a real lawyer jumps in….

Edit Changed the bracketed, I believe there is a difference in: innocent, not guilty, and guilty….Whitman was not innocent, nor was he guilty….where are the real lawyers

 

[PWC]

Not saying he did not do it…just parsing words.

That is part of the problem with todays society....redefining words, using them to mean other than what they mean....not calling things what they really are.

 

[X-Maker]

I have a copy of that Life magazine.

I got there one year later. I was surprised when I went to the Co-op to buy my books that there were still some bullet holes in the windows. It would have been expensive to replace them, though, as they were large. I went up to the ob. deck on the Tower, which was still allowed then. There were bullet-strikes everywhere.

Shooting through the drain holes would have been very difficult, especially with a scoped rifle. I have no doubt that the suppressive fire from the students and other civilians, which prevented Whitman from taking comfortable, stable shots, saved dozens of lives that day.

 

[GEM]

That was the report. When the rifle fire started, no one else was killed. There is a lesson to get away and be a looker. One guy told his gal to come look through the rails of a concrete fence. We are too far away he said. Took a round, DRT. If you see the shooter, the bullet can find you.

 

[lemaymiami]

In fact the book I’ve already mentioned showed very clearly that a shooter at high elevation ca clearly see and target people hiding behind most barricades… In short — you’re visible while the shooter isn’t…. even behind a wall, vehicle, or other cover, simply a function of the shooter’s high angle.

Yes, lots of incoming rounds will suppress a sniper’s fire - just not enough.