Utah Packing Heat - No Apologies

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I've posted the content of the article, since links to newspapers often die in a few days.

Packing heat, no apologies
'We are normal people who just happen to carry guns'

By Elizabeth Stuart
Deseret Morning News
Published: Oct. 22, 2007 12:23 a.m. MDT

PROVO — For Clachelle Jensen, preparing to leave the house with her two children goes something like this: Baby wipes? Check. Extra diapers? Check. Glock pistol? Check.
"I just feel safer when I have my gun on my hip," said Jensen, 28, who lives in Santaquin. "There's so many lunatics and crazies out there, you never know when something's going to happen."

The petite brunette's not shy about showing off her weapon, either. The Glock has a semipermanent home on her belt.

Jensen packed her pistol to the Red Robin in Provo Saturday, where she met up with about a dozen other unabashedly armed Utahns.

They looked imposing, walking in together, loaded pistols at their sides. The somber spell was broken though, when Jensen's baby started fussing and someone's cell phone went off.

"We're not gangsters," said Brian Nelson, 27, a soft-spoken man from Layton. "We are normal people. We just happen to carry guns."

A couple of the men work in gun-related businesses; the rest ranged in occupation from computer software engineer to political lobbyist. The youngest was a fresh-faced 18-year-old, the eldest had nearly-grown children. The group first met in an online chat room, OpenCarry.org, where they discuss their decision not to conceal their weapons.

"It's a whole lifestyle change," Nelson said.
He said he feels responsible for the safety of those around him when he has a gun on his hip. He always assesses the situation and looks for the exits when he walks into a room.

"You've got to envision what could go wrong because if you make the wrong decision with a gun in your hand, you'll be spending time in jail — and rightfully so," he said.

OpenCarry.org touts the slogan: "A right unexercised is a right lost." Saturday's group of pistol packers echoed the sentiment. A bonus to keeping the gun in the open, said Pether Jensen, a self-proclaimed cowboy from West Valley City, is the opportunity it presents to educate people about Utah's gun laws. No permit is required to openly carry a gun in Utah.

"I have the right to protect my family," he said. "A lot of people don't know they have that right."

Utah gun laws are some of the most relaxed in the country, said Clark Aposhian, chairman of the Utah Shooting Sports Council. His elbow rubbed against the handle of his pistol as he munched on his hamburger. Utah also boasts one of the lowest rates of crimes committed using lawfully-obtained firearms, he said. "We aren't apologizing for a felon trying to buy a gun," he said. "We obey the law and expect everyone else to also."

The only things Clachelle Jensen has ever taken out with her pistol are targets and broken bottles. None of the diners had ever taken aim at a human being.

"I hope the day never comes when I have to use my weapon," said Kevin Jensen, Clachelle's husband. "I just like to have it there in case of emergency."

All agreed that keeping the gun out in the open encourages criminals to stay at bay.

"An armed society is a polite society," they said. Kevin Jensen said he wanted his wife to keep her gun on her belt because she didn't always have hold of the purse she kept it in. He didn't want her to end up "arming a purse-snatcher," he said.

He prefers to wear his Glock strapped to his thigh. He shrugged when someone asked if he was a member of the FBI.

"If I wear it on my waist, I can't tuck my shirt in," he said, while bouncing his 3-month-old on his hip.
Click to expand...
 
Very cool....

:D Maybe things like this will make more people open their eyes and realize gun owners are normal responsible people like everybody else.
 
This is pretty cool, in that it raises awareness amongst the public about normal people and families with firearms. Non-gun people tend to imagine armed Americans as strange people, a little crazy, certainly not their neighbors. Certainly the man raising 3 or 4 very polite young children down the street wouldn't carry a gun.... or would he? :scrutiny:

As for myself, I don't think I'd want to make myself the poster boy for the 2nd Ammendment, and there's always the one crazy person who will see a gun and decide its an open invitation to have lengthy :cuss:"debate":cuss: with the wearer. I don't think I'd want the attention. Kudos to the Utahns in the story... but its not for me.
 
In Utah, without a permit, you cannot have your gun "loaded" while openly carrying it though. With a concealed firearms permit, you may have a loaded gun carried open or concealed.

It must be two steps away from firing without a permit while carried open. So, with a Glock you can't have a round in the chamber (unless you have a permit).

Semper Fidelis,

Kent
 
Does that mean if I am carrying my Hi Power cocked and locked, I don't need a permit? I have to dis-engage the safety then pull the trigger; two actions.

lawson4
 
Misquoted but that is not unusual. I know this as I choose my words carefully when speaking to the media, most of the time.

I stated that Utah has some of the most "permissive" laws for carrying firearms in the nation. "relaxed" is not quite the same nor does it portray what is meant as accurately at Permissive. The word relaxed tends to indicate a deficiency.

I never used the word "apologizing" either, I said the people at this table are not apologists for people who use guns to commit crimes or obtain firearms illegally.

But hey, just remember doesn't matter what is written as long as they spell your name right.

To her credit I found the reporter asked good questions especially for someone who , admittedly, was uninformed on the subject of firearm especially CCW or OC.

Sincerely,

W. Clark Aposhian
 
Yah, but California also just made it a law that you can't mention Mom & Dad in the classroom. My "Parent" bull****.
 
I have to admit, if I'm at Provo Town Center and I see a guy with a drop thigh rig, I'm thinking mall ninja. I'm not sure if they misquoted him about not being able to tuck his shirt in with other belt rigs since most of those seem to work better if you do tuck your shirt in. Aside from outside the elbow carry, thigh rigs seem to be about the most awkward way to carry, especially in an enviroment like a shopping mall. Unless you're wearing heavy armor or something else that prevents belt carry, I'm not sure why you'd choose that method other than to look more tactical.

It's worth a read over the comments to see how different people are reacting to the article. Some of these people can be reached, some will never be reached.

Clark, do you guys do this meet-up regularly? I know a couple of people who might be interested.

Good exposure regardless.
 
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Way to go, Clark. :) You are the man when it comes to getting good pro-gun stuff into the media around here.
 
Kentucky...open carry without a permit is legal. For concealed carry you need a permit.
 
Open Carry dot org was posted in post #13.
http://opencarry.org/

According to that site (I am more than a little skeptical)...

States that allow open carry without permit:
ID, MT, WY, SD, AK, AZ, NM, KY, VA, VT

States that allow open carry with permit:
UT, ND, MN, IA, IN, TN, GA, MA, CT, RI, NJ, MD

I say skeptical, because I imagine that if you open carried (with permit) in say, Boston, Baltimore, or Newark, you'd be harassed and arrested in very short order.
 
-----quote-----
States that allow open carry without permit:
ID, MT, WY, SD, AK, AZ, NM, KY, VA, VT

States that allow open carry with permit:
UT, ND, MN, IA, IN, TN, GA, MA, CT, RI, NJ, MD

I say skeptical, because I imagine that if you open carried (with permit) in say, Boston, Baltimore, or Newark, you'd be harassed and arrested in very short order.
----------------

That's what I want to know. There are really two lists:
1) Places you can open carry, and get into an enormous civil rights issue, and eventually, after spending several thousand dollars in lawyer fees, get your gun and your freedom back. because you weren't doing anything illegal in the first place.
2) Places where you can actually open carry without getting into a big fuss.
 
West Virginia wasn't on the list for open carry and they are definetly an open carry state with no permit required except for concealed carry.
 
Open carry might be legal in Pennsylvania... kind of... sort of.

From the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association:

While Pennsylvania has a specific law that requires a License To Carry Firearms for the concealed carry of a firearm, and the carry of firearms in vehicles, the law is silent on the legality of openly carrying a firearm in other situations, making it de-facto legal.

There is however a law that requires a License To Carry Firearms to carry either way in "cities of the first class", which as defined by law is only the city of Philadelphia.

To summarize, open carry is legal in Pennsylvania without a License To Carry Firearms except in "cities of the first class" (Philadelphia) and vehicles where a License To Carry Firearms is required to do so.

With that said, we would like to point out that there is much debate among firearm owners about whether openly carrying firearms is really a good idea. While we will leave that choice to the individual we will state that in many urban areas (namely Philadelphia) doing so will draw unwanted attention from law enforcement that may include (but not be limited to) the following repercussions:

Being stopped and questioned by law enforcement. Having your License To Carry Firearms seized and sent back for revocation. Being arrested either improperly or for other charges like disturbing the peace or creating a public nuisance.

While this may not happen should you choose to carry openly, many urban law enforcement officers we have talked to have expressed a very negative opinion towards the idea. Some have suggested that law enforcement will do everything in their power to make your life difficult should you choose to.
Click to expand...

There you have it... open carry at your own risk. I wouldn't, not even in the gun-friendly rural counties. Why invite trouble? An IWB holster isn't that much more uncomfortable compared to a belt holster. Gotta say, though, you Utah citizens sure live free! :p
 
I always felt the same way about openly carrying until I had a class as part of the FBI's Citizen's Academy that gave me another perspective. The Special Agent was asked, half jokingly, if he displayed his shotgun on a gun rack on the back of his Ford. He said the only weapon he does not carry concealed is his Springfield .45, which is at his side together with his shield. All other weapons, which include an M4 and a shotgun are hidden in his car (not in the trunk) so that nobody looking through the windows can see them. He says this makes sense because they have had many incidences where the home of an agent gets broken into by gangbangers who saw that the agent had multiple weapons, followed him to his home and burglarized it when no one was present.

So advertising that you have a gun may make you a target for some loser who wants to break into houses where he or she may think they may find guns. After all these bad guys are not totally stupid. What do y'all think. Is this a good enough argument to strictly conceal-carry?
 
Bob,

.......

ah, you know what, legality of OC in a certain state is a whole 'nother topic for a whole 'nother thread, and I personally don't feel like going down that road again, so I'm just gonna send you a PM. Let me just say that there are those among us who do it, and haven't had any issues yet.

You know what, let me say this for everyone else here, too.. use the search function, this *has* been done. Anyone interested in flogging dead horses is welcome to join us at opencarry dot org.
 
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