V-Day

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The picture with the soviet soldier planting the flag brings back memories from Call Of Duty: World At War.

If only I had a PPsH to use for celebration.
 
Well, Stalin did have a nice plan codenamed "Groza". So it is not that simple to call the Red Army liberators, as the commies were pretty much a part of actually starting that war, like supplying the Nazi Germany with different raw materials.

But, as it is 8th May, the day when the Germans surrendered, then it is appropriate to remember all the fallen and victims of idiotic politicians, regardless the nationality. In this country and near abroad, it is sad to see that the memorial day has more and more become the day of showing off the chauvinism of great-russia.

Hats off, gentlemen, and fire your salute in memory of those who fought and won the bloodiest war in human history.
... and quite a big portion of those forgot to go back home, so I'm very sorry I'm not too joyful over the whole event how the commies won the war, considering at least 270 000 victims (of the whopping population of 1.5 M) of soviet repressions of different kind, in my country alone.
 
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Medusa, am I right that this is your symbol of liberation?

as they didn't occupy any country for, say, almost 50 years
Sure, NATO and US military occupation bases in Germany and Japan never existed in your reality, huh?

270 000 victims of repressions in my country
Medusa, my detest for miserable Baltic states during WW2 is second only to Hitler's Germany itself.
I'm a Jew (by blood), and last I've heard that in the pursuit of final solution of the "Jewish question" all three Baltic states were even in advance of Germany, so no love lost here.
My mother's dad left Lithuania with most of his family in 1940, was conscripted to Red Army and met the May 9th, 1945 near Vienna, Austria. He was communications officer in artillery, and had many combat decorations.
Later he lived with his family in Leningrad, and died last year at age of 94.

The rest of his family, that stayed in the 'liberated' Baltics, disappeared forever as soon as Hitler took over Lithuania, and were never heard from 1941.
 
Sorry man, you brought in the everlasting jew-theme. But I do not remember any justification in that issue and I'm not that blind-eyed, political leaders have apologized over that camp, for example. Also, the Jewish community have been addressing the issue and said that this country specifically wasn't repressing them, that they do feel safe here and do not feel hated (even stepping up against the Wiesenthal). Even more, during the "first" republic, a cultural act was passed in 1925 granting cultural autonomy for minority groups, including Jews, and it was unique in the whole Western Europe in that time, so there's no point to throw in the you-hate-Jews card. It's cheap demagogic. :)

So I could say our country has been truthful and taken a responsibility for the past. What I can't say about your homeland, sadly, who haven't acknowledged the soviet crimes.

Beforementioned Groza plan, attacking sovereign Poland 2 weeks after Germans, jumping on sovereign Finland, killing those 21 768 Polish officers in Katyn massacre and blaming Germans for it (and for sure there were many other events following the same manner), Gulag camps, those 2 million Ukrainians starved to death, all those smart and cultural people that met their end during communist regime, spreading the semen, literally, in the occupied lands and this list could be continued pretty endlessly. :uhoh:

Occupation - meaning "enriching" it with a lot of immigrants (some 40% of the population in Baltic case), forcing on their way of thinking and culture, language and killing (literally, or using deportations) the previous original ones (Asiatic tradition, coming from the heritage of nomadic tribes, like mongols, who rampaged over the whole area in the past). I don't see how US or NATO went that extreme in Germany or Japan, but Soviet Union did, trying to russify the occupied territories.

Are you trying to call me a vicious fascist? Because every time someone does not take the issue as Russia is serving it, he/she gets called as such. :rolleyes:
 
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Sorry man, you brought in the everlasting jew-theme
yeah. for me it will last as long as I'm alive.

political leaders have apologized over that camp, for example
O yeah, that sure worked for my distant relatives that didn't make it from 'liberating civilized Germans' and their little Lithuanian 'helpers'. Sorry man, i do not believe in ANY political leader apologies, from ANY country (mine included). Because i detest ALL politicans, above all.

All i know Jews lived on 'in Asian' Russia, and did not under 'civilized' European regime in 1939-45. That's enough for me.

trying to russify the occupied territories
Last time i was in Estonia (1985, IIRC) it was as 'Russified' as Germany (and most of Europe) is 'Americanized' now. Maybe different methods, but same results.

Are you trying to call me a vicious fascist?
It would be technically wrong. Fascist were members of Italian 'nazi' party.
I have different words in my mind, but i will not make them vocal.

And now I will end this conversation, because otherwise it could quickly go downroad.
 
then it is appropriate to remember all the fallen and victims of idiotic politicians, regardless the nationality

What I wrote. I merely stated that things are not that simple and one-sided and there was actually no need to bring in the Jews. And I don't see why you try to force in the idea that I somehow like what nazis did? What I have always expressed is that both sides were pretty much the same, occupation was still occupation, whether german of soviet.

Last time i was in Estonia (1985, IIRC) it was as 'Russified' as Germany (and most of Europe) is 'Americanized' now. Maybe different methods, but same results.
Well, Russian language was pretty much forced in, as was Russian mentality (anniversaries, memorial days etc), but the russification was a lot deeper than you think, even now there are a lot of fruits of that era to deal with (political apparatus knows best what subjects want, gun ownership legislations are nearly as bad as in your home, caring about the quality of the work and so on). And the deportations (military, political, cultural elite) did left their mark.

Sorry man, i do not believe in ANY political leader apologies, from ANY country (mine included). Because i detest ALL politicans, above all.

I do agree wholeheartedly with you on that, but on the occupation topic we have to agree to disagree, I'd say. But I do have to say that the very same issue we're talking about, the WWII is the creation of a small group who had to have their powerplay and those people who tried to live their lives quietly and peacefully didn't have the chance. So I'm very sorry about your relatives, but a few of mine also "dissapeared".

And I merely noted that the Soviets (and western powers, if to come to that) had a big part in launching it. So instead of celebrating a victory (what is there to celebrate, when a hundred million lives perished) we should remember all the lives lost and actually learn from it. And that our (and yours) polichickens doesn't mess things up, again.

If the water boils, who is to blame, the water or the one who made the fire under the pot?

So Max, can we actually live peacefully?
 
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