VA CCW - Clarity on carrying knives

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Navy87Guy

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I tried a search and couldn't turn up any discussion on Virginia's laws on carrying knives.

Here's what I've found:

Virginia Code said:
18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.


So here's my question: has anyone seen/found a legal definition of a dirk, bowie knife or a legal opinion on what qualifies as "any weapon of like kind"?

I routinely carry a folding blade in my pocket using the pocket clip. I'm frustrated by the lack of definition for knives of what constitutes "concealed" and which kinds of concealed weapons would be illegal. I have a Smith & Weston HRT knife. It has a curved blade -- does that qualify as a dirk? A weapon of like kind? How much has to be exposed before it isn't considered to be concealed?

I know there are lots of personal opinions out there -- I'm really looking for any references to case law or legal opinion. So far I haven't been able to turn up any. (Well, I did find one appeal where the court determined that a box cutter did not qualify as a razor!)

Thanks in advance!

Jim
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirk

Dirk is a Scots word for a long dagger; sometimes a cut-down sword blade mounted on a dagger hilt, rather than a knife blade. The word dirk could have possibly derived from the Gaelic word sgian dearg (red knife). It may also have been a corruption of the Low German terms Dulk or Dolk. The shift from dearg [ˈɮʲɛrəg] to dirk [dʌrk] is very minimal.

In Bronze Age and Iron Age Scotland and Ireland, the dirk was actually considered to be a sword. Its blade length and style varied, but it was generally 7-14 inches. However, the blades of Irish versions often were as much as 21 inches in length.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowie_knife

Bowie knife specifically refers to a style of knife designed by Colonel James "Jim" Bowie, who lived in Texas, and originally created by James Black, though is commonly used to refer to any large sheath knife with a clip point.

The historical Bowie was not a single design, but was a series of knives improved several times by Jim Bowie over the years.

The version most commonly known as the historical Bowie knife would usually have a blade of at least six inches (15cm) in length, some reaching 12 inches (30cm) or more, with a relatively broad blade that was an inch and a half to two inches wide (4 to 5 cm) and made of steel usually between 3/16" and 1/4" thick (from 4.8 to 6.4 millimeters). The back of the blade often had a strip of soft metal (normally brass or copper) inlaid intended to catch an opponent's blade, and also often had an upper guard that bent forward at an angle, also intended to catch an opponent's blade. The back edge of the curved clip point, also called the "false edge", was often sharpened in order to allow someone trained in European techniques of saber fencing to execute the maneuver called the "back cut" or "back slash." A brass quillon was attached to protect the hand, usually cast in a mold. It is likely that the blade shape was derived from the Spanish navaja clasp knives carried in Spain and the Spanish colonies in the Americas.

The shape and style of blade was chosen so that the Bowie knife could serve usefully as a camp and hunting tool as well as a weapon. Many knives and daggers existed that could serve well as weapons, and many knives existed that could serve well as tools for hunters and trappers, but the Bowie knife was designed to do both jobs well, and is still popular with hunters and sportsmen even in the present day.

The curved portion of the edge, toward the point, is for removing the skin from a carcass, and the straight portion of the edge, toward the guard, is for chores involving cutting slices, similar in concept to the traditional Finnish hunting knife, the "puukko" (though the typical early 19th-century Bowie knife was far larger and heavier than the typical puukko). The blade is generally long enough and heavy enough that the knife can be used as a hatchet or machete, but not so heavy or long as to be cumbersome. Most such knives intended for hunting are only sharpened on one edge, to reduce the danger of cutting oneself while butchering and skinning the carcass.
 
In simple legalese, a "dirk" is a knife with two edges. A bowie, according to lawmakers, is "anything that looks wide, long and wickedly curvaceous." "Any weapon of like kind" is very strictly defined in legal circles as "any sharp pokey things that could possibly be used to hurt someone."

It's a jungle out there, Navy guy. While you will probably never get hassled for a pocket knife of any kind in Virginia, good luck if you do. Our solons will find some way to demonize you for carrying an inanimate object that fails to please or amuse them. And then you will be punished for your horrible crime against humanity.

-Sans Authoritas
 
Sans Authoritas gets to the heart of it: don't carry around a knife with two edges.

As for me, I'd think it to be more trouble than it's worth, even without laws against it, to carry a dagger or bowie knife concealed.
 
With the exception of a "schoolboy's knife" (aren't knives illegal in schools?), pretty much any knife whatsoever can be an 18.2-308 violation if it there is some evidence that the knife was carried for the probable purpose of using it as a weapon.

Court's readily rely on the "weapon of like kind" analysis to expand the scope of the law to include just about anything.

Virginia's knife law sucks.

Ohin v. Commonwealth, 47 Va. App. 194, 622 S.E.2d 784 (2005)

IN THE COURT OF APPEALS OF VIRGINIA
ARGUED AT CHESAPEAKE, VIRGINIA

NICHOLAS OHIN
v.
COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA

Record No. 2708-04-1
Decided: December 13, 2005*

Present: Judges Frank, Kelsey and Haley

FROM THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE CITY OF NEWPORT NEWS, Edward L. Hubbard, Judge

Affirmed. [Page 195]

COUNSEL

Charles E. Haden for appellant. [Page 196]

Deana A. Malek, Assistant Attorney General (Judith Williams Jagdmann, Attorney General, on brief), for appellee.

OPINION

KELSEY, J. — The trial court found Nicholas Ohin, a convicted felon, guilty of possession of a concealed weapon in violation of Code § 18.2-308.2. Ohin appeals, arguing that the trial court erred by not granting his motion to strike. We find no error and affirm Ohin's conviction.
I.

On appeal, we review the evidence in the “light most favorable” to the Commonwealth. Commonwealth v. Hudson, 265 Va. 505, 514, 578 S.E.2d 781, 786 (2003). That principle requires us to “discard the evidence of the accused in conflict with that of the Commonwealth, and regard as true all the credible evidence favorable to the Commonwealth and all fair inferences to be drawn therefrom.” Parks v. Commonwealth, 221 Va. 492, 498, 270 S.E.2d 755, 759 (1980) (emphasis and citation omitted).

While patrolling a “high drug, high crime” area of Newport News, police officers made a traffic stop of a vehicle. Standing on a nearby sidewalk, Ohin disrupted the investigation by shouting to the driver of the vehicle. One of the officers noticed Ohin conspicuously placing his hands in his pockets. The officer told Ohin to keep his hands in view, but Ohin refused to do so. Having removed “several guns and weapons” from individuals in this area before, the officer asked Ohin if he “had any weapons on him.” Ohin said he did not. The officer then requested and obtained consent to search Ohin. As the officer approached to search him, Ohin pulled a concealed knife out of his pants pocket. The officer later determined that Ohin was a convicted felon.

A grand jury charged Ohin with violating Code § 18.2-308.2. At trial, the Commonwealth presented the testimony of [Page 197] the arresting officer. The officer said he did not know what “type of knife” he took from Ohin, but described it as having a “side-folding, locking blade.” He explained that the lock fixed the blade in the open position until manually released. Acknowledging he was “not an expert on knives,” the officer stated he would not identify the knife as a bowie knife, dirk, switchblade, ballistic, or butterfly knife. He did agree it was a type of “very large” pocketknife.

Ohin's knife was introduced into evidence for the trial judge, as factfinder, to examine.1 The knife has several distinctive features, all obvious from a visual inspection. The metal hilt of the knife has a cross-guard to protect the hand from sliding forward during a thrusting motion.2 Measuring 1 3/4 inches, the cross-guard extends perpendicularly to the handle. The oversized hilt has notched indentations to enhance finger grip. On both sides of the hilt appears a raised metal relief of an oriental dragon. The knife blade comes to a point and has a serrated cutting edge. The blade locks securely in place when extended. It can be retracted only when manually unlocked. The total length of the knife, when locked in an extended position, is 8 inches. Of that length, the blade takes up 3 1/2 inches.

Ohin moved to strike the evidence on the ground that his knife — as a matter of law — did not fit the statutory definition of a concealed weapon. It was nothing more than a common pocketknife, Ohin argued. After the trial court denied the motion, Ohin elected to present no evidence and to renew his motion. The court found against Ohin, holding that the knife, [Page 198] though not one of the specifically enumerated weapons, was a weapon of “like kind” because of its physical properties — particularly its “hilt like a sword.”
II.

The trial court found Ohin guilty of violating Code § 18.2-308.2(A), which makes it a Class 6 felony for a felon “to knowingly and intentionally carry about his person, hidden from common observation, any weapon described in subsection A of § 18.2-308.” The concealed weapon statute, Code § 18.2-308(A), lists various prohibited weapons, including “any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack” and “any weapon of like kind as those enumerated” in the statute. See generally O'Banion v. Commonwealth, 33 Va. App. 47, 57-58, 531 S.E.2d 599, 604 (2000) (en banc).

As the Virginia Supreme Court has explained, the “purpose of the statute was to interdict the practice of carrying a deadly weapon about the person, concealed, and yet so accessible as to afford prompt and immediate use.” Schaaf v. Commonwealth, 220 Va. 429, 430, 258 S.E.2d 574, 574-75 (1979) (quoting Sutherland v. Commonwealth, 109 Va. 834, 835-36, 65 S.E. 15, 15 (1909)). To achieve this purpose, the General Assembly listed knives commonly used as fighting weapons. Dirks and bowie knives, for example, make useful “stabbing” weapons. O'Banion, 33 Va. App. at 58 n.2, 531 S.E.2d at 604 n.2. They have fixed blades and often, like small swords or stilettos, have cross-guards to protect the hand from sliding onto the blade during a thrust. The bowie knife has only one sharpened side, but the other side curves into a point useful for piercing. See id. While technically a folding “pocketknife,” id., a switchblade is also prohibited as it locks into a fixed position for fighting purposes. It too sometimes has a small cross-guard on its hilt for hand protection.

The General Assembly, however, did not provide an exhaustive list of fighting knives. Added to those specifically mentioned is a nonspecific category for “weapons of like kind.” [Page 199] Code § 18.2-308(A)(v). To fit within this category, a knife “must first be a weapon.” Delcid v. Commonwealth, 32 Va. App. 14, 17-18, 526 S.E.2d 273, 275 (2000). As we have explained:

Common experience teaches that bladed instruments may be possessed and used for non-aggressive as well as aggressive purposes. In the former instance, they are deemed implements; in the latter, weapons. Any given bladed instrument may fall into either category or both, depending on the circumstances and purpose surrounding its possession and use.

Id. This focus on a knife's weapon-like properties excludes “from concealed weapons statutes innocuous household and industrial knives which may be carried for legitimate purposes.” Richards v. Commonwealth, 18 Va. App. 242, 246 n.2, 443 S.E.2d 177, 179 n.2 (1994). Thus, a schoolboy's common pocketknife would necessarily fall outside the reach of the statute. See Wood ex rel. Wood v. Henry County Pub. Sch., 255 Va. 85, 95, 495 S.E.2d 255, 261 (1998).

A “weapon of like kind” includes a knife that, while not possessing the exact physical properties of the enumerated knives, has the characteristics of a fighting knife just the same. A butterfly knife, for example, is a locking pocketknife that folds into a two-part hinged handle. Its unusual handle does not resemble any of the knives listed in the statute. But its utility as a fighting weapon makes it a “like kind” weapon under Code § 18.2-308(A)(v). Delcid, 32 Va. App. at 18, 526 S.E.2d at 275. In particular, its “fixed blade, sharp point, and single-sharpened edge afford unquestionable utility as a stabbing weapon, useful in the same manner as a dagger, stiletto, or dirk.” Id.

Whether a knife's fighting qualities make it a “weapon of like kind” involves “a question of fact determined by the trier of fact according to the circumstances of the case.” Richards, 18 Va. App. at 246 n.2, 443 S.E.2d at 179 n.2; see also Delcid, 32 Va. App. at 17, 526 S.E.2d at 274 (holding that the question whether a particular knife is a “weapon of like [Page 200] kind” is “a question of fact to be determined by the trier of fact”). We can overturn this factual determination only if it is “plainly wrong” or “without evidence to support it.” Code § 8.01-680.3

In this case, Ohin's knife is not a common pocketknife as he claims it to be. It has physical features making it similar to several of the prohibited knives listed in Code § 18.2-308(A)(ii) and dissimilar to the kinds of “innocuous household and industrial knives which may be carried for legitimate purposes.” Richards, 18 Va. App. at 246 n.2, 443 S.E.2d at 179 n.2. Ohin's knife has a “hilt like a sword,” as the trial judge described it. This hilt includes a cross-guard to improve the stabbing capability of the knife by protecting the hand during the thrusting motion. The same can be said for the oversized, notched handle — a feature that enhances the user's grip. These physical properties make the knife of “like kind” to the dirk and the switchblade, given that both are designed primarily for stabbing motions. The knife's substantial hilt and cross-guard make it quite unlike a common pocketknife, kitchen carving knife, or other type of non-fighting blade.

Ohin's knife blade also locks securely when opened, much like a switchblade or a butterfly knife, and can be retracted only when unlocked. See, e.g., O'Banion, 33 Va. App. at 60, 531 S.E.2d at 605 (noting that a “retractable blade that can be locked into place” gives a knife a weapon-like quality). The blade comes to a point like a bowie knife, with one side sharpened and the other side shaped with a concave curvature. This blade design likewise improves the knife's fighting [Page 201] capabilities. What was said about the butterfly knife in Delcid can be said also about Ohin's knife: It has a “fixed blade, sharp point, and single-sharpened edge” affording it “unquestionable utility as a stabbing weapon.” Id. at 18, 526 S.E.2d at 275; see also Richards, 18 Va. App. at 246, 443 S.E.2d at 179 (finding on “examination of the weapon's blade” it was a “weapon of like kind”).
III.

In sum, the evidence supports the trial court's factual finding that Ohin's knife constitutes a “weapon of like kind” under Code § 18.2-308(A)(v). We affirm Ohin's conviction, finding no error in the trial court's denial of his motion to strike the evidence.

Affirmed.

FOOTNOTES

* [Editor's Note: Appeal to the Supreme Court of Virginia refused, No. 052593]

1 Our description of the physical properties of Ohin's knife comes in part from our own personal observation of it. See Delcid v. Commonwealth, 32 Va. App. 14, 17, 526 S.E.2d 273, 274 (2000) (“The knife is not described in the record. However, it was displayed before the trial court, was received as an exhibit, and is physically a part of the record. We have examined it.”).

2 A hilt is the “handle of a weapon or tool, esp. of a sword or dagger.” The American Heritage Dictionary 612 (2d coll. ed. 1985); see also Webster's New World Dictionary 638 (3d coll. ed. 1988) (defining hilt as “the handle of a sword, dagger, toll, etc.”).

3 Under this standard, we ask only whether “any rational trier of fact could have found the essential elements of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt.” Stevens v. Commonwealth, 46 Va. App. 234, 249, 616 S.E.2d 754, 761 (2005) (en banc) (quoting Kelly v. Commonwealth, 41 Va. App. 250, 257, 584 S.E.2d 444, 447 (2003) (en banc) (emphasis in original)); see also Haskins v. Commonwealth, 44 Va. App. 1, 7, 602 S.E.2d 402, 405 (2004); Seaton v. Commonwealth, 42 Va. App. 739, 747 n.2, 595 S.E.2d 9, 13 n.2 (2004); Crowder v. Commonwealth, 41 Va. App. 658, 663, 588 S.E.2d 384, 387 (2003); Hoambrecker v. City of Lynchburg, 13 Va. App. 511, 514, 412 S.E.2d 729, 731 (1992).
 
W.E.G., Q.E.D.

It was a sharp pokey thing that did not please or amuse the powers that be.

When you play with the government, you have to realize that it's like playing Calvinball. The government makes up its own rules whenever it wants, and you, the government-funding worker-unit, are always the loser.

-Sans Authoritas
 
the blade takes up 3 1/2 inches.
Wow, convicted of a crime for a folding knife with a blade of only 3 1/2 inches.


Many knife and blunt object laws are based on time periods when they were trying to target a specific class of society.
The upper class and many others could afford firearms or used other means of personal protection like pitchforks, axes, etc with fewer restrictions on the specific item.

However poor immigrants often used things they could afford, and were a part of the culture of thier homeland.
Scottish and Irish immigrants are responsible for many of the "dirk" or "dagger" type laws. Many of those of course are originaly from regions with a high Scottish or Irish immigration in the 1800s. Some other states liked the wording and copied it in other locations at a later date.

Many other laws against arguably even less lethal items were directed against Asian immigrants. You see this in laws on the west coast against Oriental weaponry like shuriken (throwing stars and throwing knives) and nunchaku (nunchucks, with even Arizona outlawing them) shobi-zues and cane swords, metal claws, butterfly knives etc.

You see it targeted against poor blacks with laws against cheap or affordable firearms termed "Nig***town Saturday Night Specials, later shortened to just "Saturday Night Specials".

Then we see things like the federal law and many state laws on "switchblades" dating from the time of "West Side Story" when legislation was passed to target a specific part of society, and outlaw a percieved weapon of choice.


Most weapon laws originated as class laws, designed to keep undesirables at the time disarmed while protecting the right of others to remain armed. Laws targeting the "good ol American" would have been more widely opposed, but those targeting specific undesirables could pass with far less opposition.

Things like a "slungshot" were very common in a day when many people carried a "change purse" or sack with a drawstring when coin could actualy purchase most things in society. Such a coin purse became a portable weighted weapon available to all, and thus had to be restricted. Legislation highlighting something more sinister at the time, but allowing discretionary enfrocement against all alike items was passed many places.

That is why something like a stick with a handle is considered a felony "billy" in CA, but illegaly carrying a concealed and loaded firearm can be just a misdemeanor in some situations.
The stick has always been cheap and affordable to all, making it scarier.

So don't expect weapon laws to make sense, they were designed to be all encompassing allowing the discretion of authorities to oppress and disarm undesireables of the time period in which they were originaly worded. Usualy that had to be done slyly as to not gain opposition from the average person and only be percieved as targeting the undesirable of the time period.
With many Americans focusing soley on thier firearm rights (if any at all), those even more restrictive laws on items less formidable as weapons than firearms still remain on the books.
 
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