Vacuum seal primers?

[JM531]

First off, I already know primers will last a very very long time just left alone and untouched and this is probably going overboard and really not necessary.

I have considered vacuum sealing some of primers that I don’t use on a frequent basis. My question is, does anyone have any experience with vacuum sealing their primers with a food type vacuum sealer? Mine is a ‘food saver’ brand I think. Any thoughts on adding a silica packet into the vacuum sealed pouch?
Thanks.

 

[PWC]

Yup, don't get too wet while you are overboard....

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I don't see why you would need a silica packet if you are vacuum sealing. Of course, I don't see the need to vacuum seal, either.

 

[LiveLife]

I don't see the need to vacuum seal

No need for vacuum packing primers for long term storage. I live at the coast with high humidity that often runs into 100% and have no issue with primer detonation in my reloads. And I have primers that are 40 years old that go bang.

Primers by design were made to withstand long term storage in humid/wet conditions (and even fire underwater), temperature extremes, shock/vibration of hard military transport vehicles traveling days/weeks/months offroad (and cycling of machine guns) and being dropped from airplanes for resupplying of troops.

Depending on brand/manufacturer, primers are made with moisture barriers and sealant to keep priming compound intact and why primers are so hard to deactivate even when soaked in water/solvents.

Below are sample pictures of primers showing different color barriers/sealants (color you see below the anvil is not the color of priming compound rather color of barrier/sealant) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-90200-hand-held.871506/page-2#post-11567786

Winchester and Magtech primer cups still with barrier/sealant and Tula/PMC primer cps with barrier/sealant removed (Notice the pink barrier stuck to Tula anvil?)

From SAAMI on storage of primer and moisture - https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Info-Doc-Primers.pdf

5. Modern sporting ammunition primers will not absorb moisture under normal or even severe conditions of atmospheric humidity. There is no advantage to be gained from air-tight containers. The factory containers in which they are packaged need only normal conditions of storage. They should be kept dry and not exposed to high temperatures (in excess of 150° F). If exposed to wet conditions or high temperatures, they may deteriorate, yielding misfires or poor ignition of the propellant powder​

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

To be frank, I would vacuum seal powder before primers.

And I have no intention of vacuum sealing powder.

 

[AJC1]

In most things chemical temprature control is as or more important than humidity. Keeping them inside the house with AC gives you both.

 

[LiveLife]

I have no intention of vacuum sealing powder.

Militaries around the world do not vacuum pack small arms ammunition.

They are stored in plastic bags with heat seals but not vacuum packed.

In most things chemical temprature control is as or more important than humidity. Keeping them inside the house with AC gives you both.

I agree.

Since powder breaks down faster at higher temperatures, I would keep long term storage of powder and loaded ammunition in cool/room temperature location away from sunlight - https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-education/safety/gunpowder-stability

 

[Duster340]

I wondered about that too. Given the responses, I'll save my vac packs for venison backstrap, tenderloins, roasts and stew meat.

 

[doubleh]

I'm using some primers that I purchased back in the seventies now and they go bang just like their siblings did back then. I kept on buying supplies and stacking stuff in front of old stuff. Now I have drug out some of the old stuff and am shooting it. I even found a 3 # keg of WW 230 stuck in back when I sorted through things last year and it's shooting just as good as it did when I "lost" it. Both items are very durable and I see no need for something like vacuum packaging. In fact we quit vacuum packaging foodstuffs a few years ago and use mostly zip-lock bags now.

 

[.455_Hunter]

The first thing that comes to mind is long term vacuum storage pulling low vapor pressure compounds out of the primer matrix and compromising reliability.

 

[748]

I just put them in their own ammo can.
I have 209 primers from about 20 years ago that still go bang.

 

[FROGO207]

Same here, ammo cans full of primers with intact seals. Then in zip loc baggies inside. They will most assuredly outlast my lifetime and the next generation as well.

 

[Texas10mm]

Primers in an ammo can is damn dangerous in a fire.

 

[JM531]

Primers in an ammo can is damn dangerous in a fire.

What is the safest option for primer storage if not in ammo can? Safe to store ammo in ammo can but not primers?

 

[Otto]

Safe to store ammo in ammo can but not primers?

Primers can chain detonate (unlike ammo) so they shouldn't be stored in a sealed container.

 

[Reloadron]

First off, I already know primers will last a very very long time just left alone and untouched and this is probably going overboard and really not necessary.

I have considered vacuum sealing some of primers that I don’t use on a frequent basis. My question is, does anyone have any experience with vacuum sealing their primers with a food type vacuum sealer? Mine is a ‘food saver’ brand I think. Any thoughts on adding a silica packet into the vacuum sealed pouch?
Thanks.

I agree as to going overboard. Can it be done? Yes it can be done. I just see no reason to and have never seen it done.

Ron

 

[AK Hunter]

I have vac sealed ammo before but I don't see the need to vac seal primers. A good heavy freezer Ziploc bag with a hand full of rice pitched in would work fine. I don't plain on taking primers anywhere they could get wet like I do ammo, you are just guarding them from moisture changes.

 

[748]

If my magazine catches fire I'm running away and make sure the fire department doesn't try to put it out.

 

[Toprudder]

I did a google search once for "lead styphnate" which is the compound used in primers. I found a document detailing how to safely ship the substance, and basically it is shipped wet, covered with water, and then dehydrated on the other end. Moisture does not permanently render the priming compound inert.

Some people are under the mistaken assumption that plastic is completely waterproof - it isn't. Small amounts of moisture can migrate through plastic over time.

 

[FROGO207]

The USGI ammo can is made to vent in a fire and still contain rounds or primers when cooking off. It is probably the safest vessel to store them in from what I have read in the past. Do not store black powder in them though. THAT is dangerous. Still if you feel it is unsafe do not do it. The boxes should be kept in a wooden magazine with one inch wood construction as SAAMI instructions will show you how to construct it.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

In most things chemical temprature control is as or more important than humidity. Keeping them inside the house with AC gives you both.

This. The general Arrhenius Equation shows that chemical reaction rate is exponential / geometric with (absolute) temperature, not linear.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhenius_equation

The fact that some folks linearize this, for example from testing say smokeless powder temperature sensitivity is an approximation over a limited change in absolute temperature, doesn't really alter this base relationship.

So storing powder & primers in climate controlled area and not in my garage or shed makes loads of sense here in sunny San Antonio. OTOH, they haven't shipped in refrigerated trucks or placed in refrigerated packaging when I've ordered them. That transportation is a short time exposure even here in land of the sun.

 

[LiveLife]

considered vacuum sealing ... primers that I don’t use on a frequent basis ... anyone have any experience with vacuum sealing their primers with a food type vacuum sealer? Any thoughts on adding a silica packet into the vacuum sealed pouch?

What is the safest option for primer storage if not in ammo can? Safe to store ammo in ammo can but not primers?

good heavy freezer Ziploc bag with a [handful] of rice pitched in would work fine.

I store primers not used on frequent basis in original packaging (usually in 5000 cardboard sleeves and many are approaching 15-20 years with some 40 years and they look pristine when opened and detonate reliably). I have not vacuum packed primers for storage but have vacuum packed loaded rounds in Food Saver bags (100 round battle packs with easy open slits cut for ready use kept in 5 gallon buckets with lids) in past decades but now keep long-term loaded rounds in plastic ammo cans with rubber seals (I live at the coast and metal ammo cans rust here).

And no need for silica packet or dry rice for primer storage. From SAAMI on primers and moisture

primers will not absorb moisture under normal or even severe conditions of atmospheric humidity. There is no advantage to be gained from air-tight containers

From SAAMI on storage of primer- https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Info-Doc-Primers.pdf

Properties of Primers

1. Primers may explode if subjected to mishandling. Explosions may be caused by friction and by percussion, such as hammering, pounding, dropping or bullet impact. Heating by fire, static electricity, sparks, hot tobacco ashes, or other unspecified abuses may also cause primers to explode.

2. If primers are loose or in bulk, having contact one with another, one primer exploding can, and usually will, cause a violent, sympathetic explosion of all primers so situated. In other words, one primer exploding for any reason under these circumstances will normally cause all of the primers to explode in one violent blast.

3. Primers may “dust.” Small particles of priming compound may separate from the primers in the form of dust, especially when they are subjected to shaking or jolting. Accumulation of this dust in primer feed tubes, loading machines, and loading areas is extremely hazardous as it might cause explosions or fires.

4. Primers exposed to water or any organic solvent, such as paint thinner, gasoline, kerosene, oil, grease, etc. may deteriorate, resulting in misfires or poor ignition.

5. Modern sporting ammunition primers will not absorb moisture under normal or even severe conditions of atmospheric humidity. There is no advantage to be gained from air-tight containers. The factory containers in which they are packaged need only normal conditions of storage. They should be kept dry and not exposed to high temperatures (in excess of 150° F). If exposed to wet conditions or high temperatures, they may deteriorate, yielding misfires or poor ignition of the propellant powder​

​

Recommended Storage of Primers

• Storage cabinets containing only primers are recommended. These cabinets should be ruggedly constructed of lumber at least 1” nominal thickness to delay or minimize the transmission of heat in the event of fire. SAAMI recommends against storing primers in sealed or pressurized containers.
• Keep your storage and use area clean. Make sure the surrounding area is free of trash or other readily combustible materials. Be sure your storage area is free from any possible sources of excessive heat and is isolated from open flame, furnaces, water heaters, etc.
• Do not store primers where they can be exposed to direct sunlight. Avoid storage in areas where mechanical or electrical equipment is in operation.
• Do not store primers in the same area with solvents, flammable gases, or highly combustible materials. Store primers only in their original factory containers. Do not transfer the primers from this approved container into one which is not approved. The use of glass bottles, fruit jars, plastic or metal containers, or other bulk containers for primer storage is extremely hazardous.
• Do not smoke in areas where primers are stored. Place appropriate “No Smoking” signs in these areas.
• Do not store primers in any area where they might be exposed to gun fire, bullet impact, or ricochets.
• Do not store primers with propellant powders or any other highly combustible materials so as to avoid involving primers in a fire as much as possible.

 

[jmorris]

I was given some by a friend that he had vacuum sealed, they work the same as the ones I have that were not.

That said, I don’t think you can do any harm in doing so.

 

[JFrank]

I store primer, powder and Bullets on a shelf next to each other.
Cool and Dry

 

[whughett]

Reading thru these responses it’s not hard to see why there are component shortages from time to time. There’s no shortage it’s just stored everywhere but the dealers inventory.