Varying OAL on Hornady Lock and Load AP

[TheDomFather]

Folks,
New to reloading although learning alot quickly and new to the forum. I am probably 1000 rounds into reloading mostly 9mm so far and some .38 special about to get to .45. I am noticing my OAL vary from round to round always. I called hornady and they tell me this is normal on a progressive as there is always some flex in the shell plate. I am wondering if anyone has any tips. I am using all hornady titanium nitride coated custom dies. Ive also used there micrometer seating stem as well (which sucks cause the #s are so hard to read). Any help/ideas would be greatly appreciated, I would say the variation runs +/- 5 thousands
Thanks,
TheDomfather

 

[AR-Bossman]

Hornady is right. What all are you doing in one rotation?

 

[Blue68f100]

You will always get a few 1/1000's in variation in OAL. The bullet by itself will give you 0.005" in most cases. I normally run less than 0.005" on my unit.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Depending on the bullet it could be a difference in profile consistency.

It also makes a difference if you are adjusting OAL with the shell plate full or with only 1 case inserted

 

[sbwaters]

I find that the LNL seats bullets better when all slots in the shellplate are filled. If I set the seating die with a single dummy round, I can expect to have to adjust the seating depth when running. I am just beginning so I haven’t had the adjustment become second nature, but I expect to have to move the top mark, say, from 12 o'clock in to 1 o'clock. [Incidentally, do mark the die with Magic Marker to make those adjustments easier.]

 

[thump_rrr]

The first question I have is how are you measuring the length?
Mine are +- 0.001" but I am measuring at the ogive.
Some dies such as the ones Hornady sells have more than 1 seating stem included depending on the bullets you are using.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

thunp_rrr pretty much nailed it. Bullet points vary from maker and lot to lot. I've seen them +-.015" . check one off the ogive and seating depth is much closer so if your +-.005" using calipers your golden. Load em and shoot em.

 

[LiveLife]

I called hornady and they tell me this is normal on a progressive as there is always some flex in the shell plate

To reduce OAL variance from shell plate tilt/deflection, you can resize brass separately.

Resizing brass separately also allows you to inspect primer pockets and hand prime brass.

Reloading progressively with resized brass (and resizing die removed) requires less effort on the ram lever and especially with primed brass, makes reloading silky smooth.

 

[rfwobbly]

Varying OAL is a common novice malady that will work it's way out as your "stroke" on the op lever improves, and becomes slower, steadier, and more consistent. To see a good, clean, op handle stroke go watch some of the videos by the "Ultimate Reloader" on http://ultimatereloader.com/

Case lube will help a lot. Yeah, yeah, we know you got carbide dies. Just try it.

Variation will be less the better the seating anvil fits the bullet. FP bullet seated with a flat anvil is the ultimate.

Using mixed brass will also contribute.

Hope this helps.

 

[9mmepiphany]

This just occurred to me as something you might not be aware of. The Hornady LNL AP press is designed to "cam-over."

I was talking to a Redding Reloading tech when I was having a seating issue with one of their Competition Seating dies and he mentioned that I should set my die all the way down on the shell plate and then add 1/8-1/4 turns to take out the slack

 

[TheDomFather]

The first question I have is how are you measuring the length?
Mine are +- 0.001" but I am measuring at the ogive.
Some dies such as the ones Hornady sells have more than 1 seating stem included depending on the bullets you are using.

I am measuring the overall length, I am using the conical seating stem as hornady told me the flat faced seating stem is only for wadcustters. however when I look at the top of a hollowpoint bullet it is relatively flat so I was thinking of switching to the flat seating stem to see if it is more consistent. I feel like the rounded seating stem is more suitable for Round nose bullets vs. hollow points. Any thoughts?

 

[TheDomFather]

Varying OAL is a common novice malady that will work it's way out as your "stroke" on the op lever improves, and becomes slower, steadier, and more consistent. To see a good, clean, op handle stroke go watch some of the videos by the "Ultimate Reloader" on http://ultimatereloader.com/

Case lube will help a lot. Yeah, yeah, we know you got carbide dies. Just try it.

Variation will be less the better the seating anvil fits the bullet. FP bullet seated with a flat anvil is the ultimate.

Using mixed brass will also contribute.

Hope this helps.

Would you use the FP anvil on a hollow point bullet? Thanks for the advice...

 

[9mmepiphany]

That was the seating stem I used with the Xtreme 124gr FN as well as the RMR 124gr FN and HP. Also used the flat (wadcutter) seating stem with the Xtreme 158gr RNFP and FN

 

[Lokichoki]

The donfather,
Think about how big a thousandths is, the bullet seating die either sets on the ogive or on the tip depending on the bullet used and which stem issues accordingly, a soft point or hollow points nose vary a good bit especially in rifle but when you seat the bullet the consistency lies in the bullet stem seating off the walls of the projectile so when you measure the nose you will get a variety of C.O.L with handguns if your close to the suggested overall length your fine , when you get deeper into reloading and accuracy is the name a single stage press is the name of the game, I bought a Lee challenger press fist and realised the breach locked system is flawed and gives me fits on c.o.l but they all have shot and more accurate than I can shoot

 

[TheDomFather]

Thank you all for your advice/comments. My mental challenge is bullet variation shouldnt play a huge part as if the press is acting correctly when you squeeze the bullet between two plates it should always be the same length. I am going to try the flat faced bullet seating stem and see if this makes a difference with hollow points.

 

[AR-Bossman]

Thank you all for your advice/comments. My mental challenge is bullet variation shouldnt play a huge part as if the press is acting correctly when you squeeze the bullet between two plates it should always be the same length. I am going to try the flat faced bullet seating stem and see if this makes a difference with hollow points.

I did this with a couple hornady ???... can't remember off hand and the flat tip squashed the angular "petals" of the hollowpoint to a more rounded off smaller opening. So I quit using it.

 

[rfwobbly]

Would you use the FP anvil on a hollow point bullet? Thanks for the advice...

I use the seating die anvil that fits the ogive of the bullet best. On a Hornady XTP, which is more conical, I use a hollow anvil like the Hornady dies offer. On a Speer Gold Dot, which is more oval, I use a RN anvil.

So the exact choice of seating anvil is made on a case-by-case basis.

 

[macgrumpy]

You misunderstand where the seating stem is supposed to contact the bullet, it's not designed to make contact at the nose of the bullet, it's supposed to contact the ogive or close to it.

 

[egd]

I used to think too that if you're squeezing the bullet between two flat plates it should always be the same. But that's not really exactly what you're doing. First off, the shell plate can have a minute amount of give. Remember we're talking Thousands of an inch here. Then the shape of the bullet at the ogive (roundness if you will) can vary a good bit. Then the amount of pressure you pull down on the handle can vary just a scooch. You add that all together and the oal can be off by several thousands.

 

[TheDomFather]

Thanks everyone appreciate he help. Net net it sounds like if they vary a bit it's really no biggie as long as they load and shoot

 

[Dudedog]

Just for fun sort out a batch (say 50) then take the 10 shortest and 10 longest. Then test and see if you see a difference. If you do you might want to aim for the shorter or longer OAL when you setup.
Odds are if it is only .01 you will be hard pressed to tell the difference. Depending on the load in 9mm 1.08 vs 1.10 is maybe 20fps so if you were after 1.09 you might not even notice unless you were using same head stamp/lot brass and weighing every powder charge.
I am not trying to say consistent OAl is not better, just that it is not the only factor involved.

 

[AR-Bossman]

Grab some off the shelf commercial and see how consistent they are. Might be surprised.

 

[macgrumpy]

Actually the ogive shape is controlled better than the bullet's length, that's why the seating stem (in a Hornady die) needs to have the proper shape. If the stem contacts the tip of the bullet then it's not the correct shape.

Bullet length can vary by several thousandths of an inch but the ogive position (relative to the base of the bullet) will only vary by a couple of thousandths, depending on the quality of the bullet.

 

[Bart B.]

For most consistent bullet jump distance to the rifling, seater stems must contact the bullet at a diameter on their ogive not less than the barrel's bore diameter. No other bullet diameter touches the barrel.

 

[Walkalong]

The biggest thing I do to keep OALs close is size first, then load the sized/primed cases. None of my seaters are set to contact the shell plate. As Bart posted, the best way to see if rifle bullets are seated consistently is checking off the ogive.

I don't worry with that with pistol bullets and just check OALs. I get a .005 or less spread with 99% of pistol bullets. If I cut that in half I would never see it on target. Heck, if it was .010, I never would. (I'm not that good.)

Ive also used there micrometer seating stem as well (which sucks cause the #s are so hard to read). Any help/ideas would be greatly appreciated, I would say the variation runs +/- 5 thousands

I traced my Hornady 9MM seater with micrometer top with a marker to help make it easier to read. You should be able to get less than a .010 spread, but the question is, can you shoot the difference. heck, I'm not sure a machine rest could.