I'm developing a crush on a 16 inch Model 94 .30-30 at my local gun shop. How much velocity would the 16 inch barrel loose compared to a standard 20 inch?
Velocity loss in Model 94 trapper?
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Yeah, but...
...I didn't have a Daisy clone of a Marlin when I was nine years old.
Ok, I'll get a Marlin when I finally get around to getting a .45-70, okay? Now, back to my original question...
...I didn't have a Daisy clone of a Marlin when I was nine years old.
Ok, I'll get a Marlin when I finally get around to getting a .45-70, okay? Now, back to my original question...
Length of barrel is but one factor...
The .30-30 Win. loads at a lower C.U.P. (copper under pressure) than say a .270 Win, which loads lower than a .300 Wea. Mag. The higher the pressure, the greater the effect, and the more powder burning, the greater the effect. In terms of a .270 Win, I used to lose about 50 F.P.S. (feet per second) per one inche of barrel length lacking. For example, I would lose about 200 F.P.S. by using an 18" barrel V. a 22". This was what bothers me about manufacturers "loading down" the .270 Win. by shortening its barrel from the optimal 26" barrel it needs to FULLY breathe. Regarding your .30-30 Win, the issues are not the same. By reducing from a 20" barrel to a 16" barrel, to be certain, you will experience SOME lose in velocity. However, It will NOT be the 50 F.P.S. becuase the pressure is lower. To compensate, use a faster burning powder so the powder all burns in the barrel and not outside the barrel. I estimate (I tried to locate my reloading book that discusses this...no luck) 140 F.P.S. loss at MOST. But, to be certain, find two people who own these. Check it with a Chrony. What I think you'll miss more is sight plane if you like iron sights. If you use a scope, no biggie. For my part, I really like the balance of a 20" model 94, but it will be your gun, not mine. I doubt the deer that WILL fall to it all the same will ask you, "'scuse me, sir, but you just shoot me with a 16" or a 20" gun?" They'll be too busy dyin'!
Good luck and let us know what you think if you buy it. By the way, you can go to various "reloader" websites and run the calculations on-line...try Sierra's web site, or Speer.
Doc2005
The .30-30 Win. loads at a lower C.U.P. (copper under pressure) than say a .270 Win, which loads lower than a .300 Wea. Mag. The higher the pressure, the greater the effect, and the more powder burning, the greater the effect. In terms of a .270 Win, I used to lose about 50 F.P.S. (feet per second) per one inche of barrel length lacking. For example, I would lose about 200 F.P.S. by using an 18" barrel V. a 22". This was what bothers me about manufacturers "loading down" the .270 Win. by shortening its barrel from the optimal 26" barrel it needs to FULLY breathe. Regarding your .30-30 Win, the issues are not the same. By reducing from a 20" barrel to a 16" barrel, to be certain, you will experience SOME lose in velocity. However, It will NOT be the 50 F.P.S. becuase the pressure is lower. To compensate, use a faster burning powder so the powder all burns in the barrel and not outside the barrel. I estimate (I tried to locate my reloading book that discusses this...no luck) 140 F.P.S. loss at MOST. But, to be certain, find two people who own these. Check it with a Chrony. What I think you'll miss more is sight plane if you like iron sights. If you use a scope, no biggie. For my part, I really like the balance of a 20" model 94, but it will be your gun, not mine. I doubt the deer that WILL fall to it all the same will ask you, "'scuse me, sir, but you just shoot me with a 16" or a 20" gun?" They'll be too busy dyin'!
Good luck and let us know what you think if you buy it. By the way, you can go to various "reloader" websites and run the calculations on-line...try Sierra's web site, or Speer.
Doc2005
What you lose in velocity, you'll appreciate in handling.
There's no denying those 16" Trapper models handle quickly. I've thought about trading in one of my 20" Model 94s for a 16" Trapper, but I will probably just end up buying one outright.
Something to consider with the lost velocity of the 16" barrel is that Hornady just introduced a new load for .30-30 leverguns, with a pointed rubbertip bullet. That means you have extra range and velocity, without the safety risks usually inherent with pointed bullets in tube-fed magazine rifles.
There's no denying those 16" Trapper models handle quickly. I've thought about trading in one of my 20" Model 94s for a 16" Trapper, but I will probably just end up buying one outright.
Something to consider with the lost velocity of the 16" barrel is that Hornady just introduced a new load for .30-30 leverguns, with a pointed rubbertip bullet. That means you have extra range and velocity, without the safety risks usually inherent with pointed bullets in tube-fed magazine rifles.
Gewehr98 said:There's no denying those 16" Trapper models handle quickly. I've thought about trading in one of my 20" Model 94s for a 16" Trapper, but I will probably just end up buying one outright.
Yes, I'd forgotten the "buy one of each" solution. Silly of me.
Thanks to bogie and Doc2005 for the information. No, I don't handload at the moment, but this may be what pushes me over the edge. Unless someone can point me to a source of cheap, mil-surp .30-30.
Well, me and Daddy, we handload. But unless you just like to handload, you might not gain anything. If you don't want to handload .30-30, just send me all your spent brass.
What we did was tone it down a little- 2200fps- for my '94 which is a 20" barrel. We worked up some handloads for my 340 Savage, but still managed to avoid magnumitis even with spitzers, which you can get away with in a bolt but not in a '94.In the 16" barrel, you may be better off going with Remington's 150gr CoreLokt or Winchester's 150gr PowerPoint since they're generally faster than a 170grainer in either of the respective brands. Or, when I sighted in my '94, I was noting that the orange-boxed stuff from Cabela's seemed to be loaded a mite hotter than Remchester.
Thing about .30-30 is when you do handload, you have to consider the rifle and don't try to hotrod it. The extra power can bind up the action.
Of course, we all know cheap mil-surp .30-30 is non-existent, which is the detractors favorite excuse to recommend commie crap.
But that would be a Marlin.
Gewehr98, and a fine choice it would be.
I had a Winchester 94 Trapper, only in .357. I liked everything about it except the trigger and stripping it to clean it. It did handle very well, was light, beautiful, accurate, and fed everything but .38's well. I toy with the idea of getting another one except this time in .30-30, but I'm quite happy with my Marlin's (4) for now. To each his own.
jmm
Gewehr98, and a fine choice it would be.
I had a Winchester 94 Trapper, only in .357. I liked everything about it except the trigger and stripping it to clean it. It did handle very well, was light, beautiful, accurate, and fed everything but .38's well. I toy with the idea of getting another one except this time in .30-30, but I'm quite happy with my Marlin's (4) for now. To each his own.
jmm
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but I have a question to Mustanger98...
Your savage 340...does it have the 18 or 20" barrel?
I just got some spitzers loaded up for my beastie and was going to be playing this saturday...using 125 gr hp's and some150 gr flat base spire points.
needless to say a 30-30 looks odd with a pointy bullet. but in a cool way...
Mine is a 340 except in name...it has Springfield Savage on it and its listed as a model 840. I was told that the action it uses was an original Springfield design, but still uses the Savage retaining nut on the barrel.
D
Your savage 340...does it have the 18 or 20" barrel?
I just got some spitzers loaded up for my beastie and was going to be playing this saturday...using 125 gr hp's and some150 gr flat base spire points.
needless to say a 30-30 looks odd with a pointy bullet.
but in a cool way...Mine is a 340 except in name...it has Springfield Savage on it and its listed as a model 840. I was told that the action it uses was an original Springfield design, but still uses the Savage retaining nut on the barrel.
D
db_tanker wrote:
I'll have to check and be sure, but it looks to me like a 20" barrel.
The 125's... I'm curious to try some of those in mine. Seems like they'd be good for varmint work. The 150's... tell you what I ran into with mine shooting 147gr BT's and 165gr SP spitzers... the bullet is too long to load through the magazine, so I had to single load 'em. But they shoot accurately and consistently in my rifle.
Yeah, it looks odd... probably because the human mind is conditioned to think in a certain set of terms... .30-30 is supposed to be a 150 or 170 grain RN bullet because that's how it's always been. But, load a spitzer and suddenly you're no longer shooting .30-30 as we know it, but rather "7.62x51R", the latest greatest overspecialized do-it-all antique wonder cartridge, and the "R" stands for "Redneck" because the '94 is known as the "redneck assault rifle".
I'm not surprised. All those old companies have been bought and sold and merged so many times...
I'll have to check and be sure, but it looks to me like a 20" barrel.
The 125's... I'm curious to try some of those in mine. Seems like they'd be good for varmint work. The 150's... tell you what I ran into with mine shooting 147gr BT's and 165gr SP spitzers... the bullet is too long to load through the magazine, so I had to single load 'em. But they shoot accurately and consistently in my rifle.
Yeah, it looks odd... probably because the human mind is conditioned to think in a certain set of terms... .30-30 is supposed to be a 150 or 170 grain RN bullet because that's how it's always been. But, load a spitzer and suddenly you're no longer shooting .30-30 as we know it, but rather "7.62x51R", the latest greatest overspecialized do-it-all antique wonder cartridge, and the "R" stands for "Redneck" because the '94 is known as the "redneck assault rifle".
I'm not surprised. All those old companies have been bought and sold and merged so many times...
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