hankdatank1362
Member
Took me a while to get the buttons figured out.
Does this mean I'm more likely to shoot if an assailant is white?
Very intresting test, is that a gun or a cell phone?
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Took me a while to get the buttons figured out.
Does this mean I'm more likely to shoot if an assailant is white?
M1 Shooter
Member
Game Over
Your Score: 475
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:803.76ms
Black Unarmed:794.16ms
White Armed:823.44ms
White Unarmed:807.04ms
So, what's it mean, besides the fact I am a good bit slower than many of you.
Your Score: 475
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:803.76ms
Black Unarmed:794.16ms
White Armed:823.44ms
White Unarmed:807.04ms
So, what's it mean, besides the fact I am a good bit slower than many of you.
Grayrider
Member
Your Score: 585
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:739.92ms
Black Unarmed:832.92ms
White Armed:716.68ms
White Unarmed:754.84ms
Hmm...I was only looking at their hands after the first 2-4 while I sorted out what was going on. Had some mistakes there, then a couple later.
I suspect this test mainly reflects contrast and hand position as others have pointed out. I would bet if we look back over the images we will find that the white individuals had more clearly visible items in their hands. I recall one black individual had a handgun but it was held so that you were looking directly top down and it was just a long silver line. I did not shoot on that one. I also got tagged for taking too long on a few.
John
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:739.92ms
Black Unarmed:832.92ms
White Armed:716.68ms
White Unarmed:754.84ms
Hmm...I was only looking at their hands after the first 2-4 while I sorted out what was going on. Had some mistakes there, then a couple later.
I suspect this test mainly reflects contrast and hand position as others have pointed out. I would bet if we look back over the images we will find that the white individuals had more clearly visible items in their hands. I recall one black individual had a handgun but it was held so that you were looking directly top down and it was just a long silver line. I did not shoot on that one. I also got tagged for taking too long on a few.
John
Spartacus451
Member
Got bored couldn't finish. The time limit doesn't make sense. You take longer to determine that someone doesn't have a gun then you take to determine that they do.
Carry Big Stick
Member
My score,
Game Over
Your Score: 750
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:606.2ms
Black Unarmed:665.88ms
White Armed:628.92ms
White Unarmed:615.16ms
Not quite sure why it says that much different. I shot them all equally. Some of those positions are a little hard.
I would like to see several different things on this test that would really help it. I would like to see how CCW owners do compared to average citizen that has no gun interest. I also think it would be interesting if they asked for the users race. Would a black user still shoot the black guys as fast? I don't even know the race of a couple of those I just looked at the hands.
I like that they used the reasons we always hear when an LEO fires on an unarmed citizen. They have the something shiny, the cell phone, and the wallet. I think some of these shooting by LEOs are justified if the person presents the object like a weapon. I mean who goes around pointing their cell phones at people like a gun. I keep the phone just like a gun, holstered and there if I need it.
I'm sure we have all seen this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruQmcQgolM0 The BG decides he is gonna use his cell as a gun.
Game Over
Your Score: 750
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:606.2ms
Black Unarmed:665.88ms
White Armed:628.92ms
White Unarmed:615.16ms
Not quite sure why it says that much different. I shot them all equally. Some of those positions are a little hard.
I would like to see several different things on this test that would really help it. I would like to see how CCW owners do compared to average citizen that has no gun interest. I also think it would be interesting if they asked for the users race. Would a black user still shoot the black guys as fast? I don't even know the race of a couple of those I just looked at the hands.
I like that they used the reasons we always hear when an LEO fires on an unarmed citizen. They have the something shiny, the cell phone, and the wallet. I think some of these shooting by LEOs are justified if the person presents the object like a weapon. I mean who goes around pointing their cell phones at people like a gun. I keep the phone just like a gun, holstered and there if I need it.
I'm sure we have all seen this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruQmcQgolM0 The BG decides he is gonna use his cell as a gun.
Last edited:
lovin_it_strong
Member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2008
- Messages
- 11
Game Over
Your Score: 645
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:687.4ms
Black Unarmed:756.48ms
White Armed:686.28ms
White Unarmed:730.44ms
interesting that it seems to take most of us recognize a gun faster than we decide something isn't a gun.
Your Score: 645
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:687.4ms
Black Unarmed:756.48ms
White Armed:686.28ms
White Unarmed:730.44ms
interesting that it seems to take most of us recognize a gun faster than we decide something isn't a gun.
ZeSpectre
Member
Played the game where I didn't shoot anybody (hey, nobody made any threatening moves in my direction)
Your Score: -1805
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:106.44ms
Black Unarmed:311.16ms
White Armed:131.6ms
White Unarmed:312.88ms
Replayed the game where I simply assumed everyone was a threat and opened fire (held the key).
Your Score: -500
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:34.56ms
Black Unarmed:26.64ms
White Armed:44.96ms
White Unarmed:47.56ms
Note the odd results especially since I simply held the holster or shoot keys down so technically speaking there was NO reaction time and no reason for the numbers to be different. Something is highly skewed in this "test".
Your Score: -1805
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:106.44ms
Black Unarmed:311.16ms
White Armed:131.6ms
White Unarmed:312.88ms
Replayed the game where I simply assumed everyone was a threat and opened fire (held the key).
Your Score: -500
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:34.56ms
Black Unarmed:26.64ms
White Armed:44.96ms
White Unarmed:47.56ms
Note the odd results especially since I simply held the holster or shoot keys down so technically speaking there was NO reaction time and no reason for the numbers to be different. Something is highly skewed in this "test".
I noticed a couple things about the test:
* It seemed to me that the black guys were further to the periphery of the images than the white guys. This might delay holster time or increase a person's propensity to "shoot first". Eyes take time to move.
* There seemed to be a number of black people who had the objects they were holding obscured by light or dark colored clothing, making it difficult for a quick identify.
That said, my "time to shoot" for blacks was higher by 42ms (!) than my "time to shoot" for whites, and my "time to holster" was 10ms shorter. And I'm white. I also did not notice the race/color of the people, to a few exceptions when they were very dark, or very light.
me too - that'd be a hell of a lot more interesting than the color of the cell/gun holder!
* It seemed to me that the black guys were further to the periphery of the images than the white guys. This might delay holster time or increase a person's propensity to "shoot first". Eyes take time to move.
* There seemed to be a number of black people who had the objects they were holding obscured by light or dark colored clothing, making it difficult for a quick identify.
That said, my "time to shoot" for blacks was higher by 42ms (!) than my "time to shoot" for whites, and my "time to holster" was 10ms shorter. And I'm white. I also did not notice the race/color of the people, to a few exceptions when they were very dark, or very light.
me too - that'd be a hell of a lot more interesting than the color of the cell/gun holder!
The rationale is found at :
http://home.uchicago.edu/~jcorrell/TPOD.html
This line of research came out of the Diallo case. The issue is whether race influences the shoot decision and might cause a false positive.
The effect has been shown in subjects but found not to be present as much in trained officers and can be mitigated with training.
IIRC, the first author has presented this work to various police agencies. It is a good thing to study and can help avoid unpleasant mistakes by correct training and aid officers if a false claim was made.
http://home.uchicago.edu/~jcorrell/TPOD.html
This line of research came out of the Diallo case. The issue is whether race influences the shoot decision and might cause a false positive.
The effect has been shown in subjects but found not to be present as much in trained officers and can be mitigated with training.
IIRC, the first author has presented this work to various police agencies. It is a good thing to study and can help avoid unpleasant mistakes by correct training and aid officers if a false claim was made.
coloradokevin
Member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2008
- Messages
- 3,285
I also agree that the time limit is ridiculous. Sure, in a real gun fight you want to shoot first. But, you had darn well better know that you are in a real gun fight before you do!
I still maintain that this so-called test has no other purpose than to attempt to promote the idea that there is a racial bias against people that causes them to be killed more frequently... I believe that this couldn't be further from the truth.
I still maintain that this so-called test has no other purpose than to attempt to promote the idea that there is a racial bias against people that causes them to be killed more frequently... I believe that this couldn't be further from the truth.
Since I've talked to these guys, the purpose of the research is to find out if there is a bias and factors which influence it.
One can suppose there is a political agenda but that's one's own tin foil hat.
While somegun folks may not admit to it, there are legit factors of race that influence decision making.
One can suppose there is a political agenda but that's one's own tin foil hat.
While somegun folks may not admit to it, there are legit factors of race that influence decision making.
Jorg Nysgerrig
Member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
- Messages
- 7,822
For those interested, here's the paper published regarding it: http://www.apa.org/journals/releases/psp9261006.pdf
Rapidfire_85
Member
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2007
- Messages
- 44
Your Score: 645
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:637.72ms
Black Unarmed:761.24ms
White Armed:641.6ms
White Unarmed:717.24ms
looks like im quick to notice guns, but hesitant to say they are cell phones.
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:637.72ms
Black Unarmed:761.24ms
White Armed:641.6ms
White Unarmed:717.24ms
looks like im quick to notice guns, but hesitant to say they are cell phones.
Here's their important last paragraph:
The data presented here suggest that, although police officers
may be affected by culturally shared racial stereotypes (i.e., showing
bias in their response times), they are no more liable to this bias
than are the people who live and work in their communities.
Further, at least on the simulation used here, the officers’ ultimate
decisions about whether or not to shoot are less susceptible to
racial bias than are the decisions of community members. The data
suggest that the officers’ training and/or expertise may improve
their overall performance (yielding faster responses, greater sensitivity
and reduced tendencies to shoot) and decrease racial bias in
decision outcomes. We feel that this research represents a valuable
melding of basic social psychological processes with an issue of
great importance to our society. By examining the influence of
race in the automatic processing of danger-related stimuli, and the
capacity of expertise to moderate this effect, these findings touch
on a topic of great interest to social psychologists, sociologists,
police, and community groups, alike. The investigation of racial
bias in police use of force presents a unique opportunity to apply
experimental social psychological methods to an issue that is vital
to the members of increasingly diverse neighborhoods and communities
------ I would think that this should negate the tin foil hat view of the research.
The data presented here suggest that, although police officers
may be affected by culturally shared racial stereotypes (i.e., showing
bias in their response times), they are no more liable to this bias
than are the people who live and work in their communities.
Further, at least on the simulation used here, the officers’ ultimate
decisions about whether or not to shoot are less susceptible to
racial bias than are the decisions of community members. The data
suggest that the officers’ training and/or expertise may improve
their overall performance (yielding faster responses, greater sensitivity
and reduced tendencies to shoot) and decrease racial bias in
decision outcomes. We feel that this research represents a valuable
melding of basic social psychological processes with an issue of
great importance to our society. By examining the influence of
race in the automatic processing of danger-related stimuli, and the
capacity of expertise to moderate this effect, these findings touch
on a topic of great interest to social psychologists, sociologists,
police, and community groups, alike. The investigation of racial
bias in police use of force presents a unique opportunity to apply
experimental social psychological methods to an issue that is vital
to the members of increasingly diverse neighborhoods and communities
------ I would think that this should negate the tin foil hat view of the research.
sloo50
Member
Your Score: 515
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:678.84ms
Black Unarmed:761.96ms
White Armed:684.8ms
White Unarmed:713.44ms
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:678.84ms
Black Unarmed:761.96ms
White Armed:684.8ms
White Unarmed:713.44ms
leathermanwave
Member
Game Over
Your Score: 135
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:735.8ms
Black Unarmed:843.12ms
White Armed:748.4ms
White Unarmed:821.72ms
Your Score: 135
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:735.8ms
Black Unarmed:843.12ms
White Armed:748.4ms
White Unarmed:821.72ms
tinygnat219
Member
This is with holding the "Fire" button down:
Your Score: -500
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:51.08ms
Black Unarmed:47.32ms
White Armed:49.64ms
White Unarmed:39.32ms
This is with holding the "Holster" button down:
Your Score: -1750
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:331.64ms
Black Unarmed:24.88ms
White Armed:22.88ms
White Unarmed:22.52ms
Your Score: -500
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:51.08ms
Black Unarmed:47.32ms
White Armed:49.64ms
White Unarmed:39.32ms
This is with holding the "Holster" button down:
Your Score: -1750
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:331.64ms
Black Unarmed:24.88ms
White Armed:22.88ms
White Unarmed:22.52ms
CalebJns
Member
Game Over
Your Score: 560
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:680.28ms
Black Unarmed:744.2ms
White Armed:659.44ms
White Unarmed:708.72ms
Your Score: 560
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:680.28ms
Black Unarmed:744.2ms
White Armed:659.44ms
White Unarmed:708.72ms
never_retreat
Member
Game Over
Your Score: 620
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:613.68ms
Black Unarmed:755.88ms
White Armed:625.2ms
White Unarmed:689.52ms
Your Score: 620
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:613.68ms
Black Unarmed:755.88ms
White Armed:625.2ms
White Unarmed:689.52ms
Game Over
Your Score: 580
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:783.12ms
Black Unarmed:840.12ms
White Armed:782.24ms
White Unarmed:784.8ms
I read a book about SEALS or Delta or something and they say "when trying to assess threats, always look at the hands..."
It's true. I only noticed skin color peripherally.
Your Score: 580
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:783.12ms
Black Unarmed:840.12ms
White Armed:782.24ms
White Unarmed:784.8ms
I read a book about SEALS or Delta or something and they say "when trying to assess threats, always look at the hands..."
It's true. I only noticed skin color peripherally.
doberman
Member
Game Over
Your Score: 620
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:689.72ms
Black Unarmed:802.76ms
White Armed:692.56ms
White Unarmed:723.52ms
No fair I had to itch my nose!!
LOL!
Your Score: 620
Average reaction time:
Black Armed:689.72ms
Black Unarmed:802.76ms
White Armed:692.56ms
White Unarmed:723.52ms
No fair I had to itch my nose!!
LOL!
doberman
Member
I only looked at the hands. I can't remember any race, but recall cell phone, wallet, and a soda can.
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