Very Strange CCW Permit Process & Activity

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Wolfpackin

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My CCW permit is now almost three weeks over due from the 90 day wait period. Colorado is a "shall issue" state and I assure you that I qualify. When I called at about day 85 to check on the status I was told that a clerical error was made by the local Sherifff's Dept. in that they neglected to send in my finger prints to the CBI. The staff was very polite and apologetic so I let it go.
Tonight I received a call from my neighbor informing me that a Deputy had visited her to ask some questions about me. I have no problem with that but I didn't think personal references were part of the application process. Further, the Deputy informed the neighbor that the reason for the questioning was because I was applying for a concealed carry permit! Now I'm a little annoyed to say the least. Open carry is legal here so if I want people to know that I own and carry a gun I would open carry. Now my neighbors know that I have guns and plan to carry one. :mad: The neighbor informed me that the Deputy stated they routinely notify neighbors of those applying for this permit. Did they do a background check on my neighbor? How do they know that they haven't just informed a crack addict that I have guns at my house?
Have you ever heard of personal references and notification to neighbors as I've explained? Just curious and somewhat perturbed. :banghead:
 
That sounds like a large invasion of your privacy. I would suggest you contact your lawyer about this and any Colorado gun rights organizations.

Where are you located at in Colorado? What town and county?
 
I would not mind. They can ask my neighbors, they are the only ones I have, and will be sitting next to my wife and I in the class.. I guess they could just come over here, and I will answer the same questions they did. IF this was not the case, I would also be very pissed. I have had neighbors when younger and renting, that I would not want them to know that I had guns.
 
Tecumseh,
I was afraid someone would suggest getting a lawyer. Cost would probably be a problem, the risk / reward thing. And I live in a very small town in Eagle County, CO about ninety miles west of Denver.
I've never been harrassed, stopped or questioned by LE and I'd like to keep it that way; but I am interested in hearing some more.
Thanks.
 
Thats insane.

Thank God my Sheriff didn't pull that crap on me when I got my permit because at the time the neighbor on one side of me was a Schizophrenic (that should really be in a group home) and the one on the other side of me was a real dumb pothead.

Of course I live in El Paso county ... we had "Shall Issue" here before the rest of the state.
 
That's complete BS. You are a law abiding citizen, not a sex offender.
After (or IF) you get your permit I'd get a lawyer and take it to the highest power you can and raise cain. At the least, start some sort of paper trail so when your house is burglarized you can let them know it was the deputy that told everyone you have guns. :fire:
 
Eagle County, huh? Vail actually has an Assault Weapons Ban of their very own. Might be part of the reason. Eagle County likes to be a bit uppity considerin' all of the rich folk that live there. I would go take it up with the Sheriff, Joe Hoy. Joe Hoy seems like a cool guy. Don't lawyer up just yet, simply go ask for an appt with the Sherriff. One of his deputies may have a stick up his butt with respect to CCW permits and might be doing a little extracurricular exploration that Hoy may not know about and doesn't condone.
 
One of his deputies may have a stick up his butt with respect to CCW permits and might be doing a little extracurricular exploration that Hoy may not know about and doesn't condone.
Click to expand...

I'd give that approach about half an hour's worth of effort. If that didn't produce the desired net results, I'd mention the term "law suit." If that didn't produce the desired net results, I'd start shopping for an assault lawyer.
 
My mother freaked out and wrote asking me what kind of trouble I was in when FBI interviewed our neighbors about me. Seems they were doing checks for my security clearence.
 
In New York, There is a reference check, but you supply the references (4 I believe). I used to live in NY, and never got my ccw there. If my memory serves me right they do not check with or question your neighbors ( I could be wrong, but im pretty sure). But to the original poster, I think that was a big time boo-boo on there part. I know you didnt want to, but lawyer may be the way to go, if you have verified that this practice was not supported by the gun laws in your area.
 
You might try dropping a line to Dudley at www.RMGO.org. He's not a lawyer, but he'll probably know what the story is with Eagle county, and may have some insight to help you move things along. I don't think that interviewing the neighbors is normal procedure, but it may be one of the sheriff's options. Maybe too early for an attorney (?), but a face-to-face with the sheriff may be useful if you can remain calm and rational. If you show an ill-tempered streak, he may have reason to deny you under the "discretionary" category.

According to the latest Colorado CCW data, Eagle County processed 22 applications in 2006 and granted 21 permits. The only one denied was due to an arrest record.
 
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Neighbors...

I'm very curious why neighbors are being queried, and what ... if anything... could be swayed by the opinion of a neighbor in a Shall Issue situation.

If Colorado has an open records policy, your CCW application/status is probably public record (as it is in VA and NC) so going after the police for disclosing your application is probably a moot point.

I'd make a stink about the fact that the permit wasn't issued in the prescribed timeframe rather than the neighbor interview. I would have expected someone to issue you a provisional/temporary permit until whatever issues got resolved and your regular permit arrived.

In North Carolina, the Sheriff has the ability to issue an emergency permit. You have to apply for a regular permit (take the class, fill out the paperwork, etc) but if you meet the criteria, you can leave with a 90 day provisional permit which allows you to carry until the regular permit arrives.

Shortly after moving here, my wife and I had a little "situation" with another individual. I hadn't yet applied for my NC permit, but I had one from our previous state. At the time, there was no reprociticy of any sort. We did the paperwork, met with the Sheriff and both left with emergency permits. Our regular permits arrived just before the emergency permits expired.

This was in Wake County, NC which is the county Raleigh (state capital) is in.

Good luck with this and please keep us posted.

Steve
 
I'm very curious why neighbors are being queried, and what ... if anything... could be swayed by the opinion of a neighbor in a Shall Issue situation.
Click to expand...

Although it's a 'shall-issue' state, the sheriff can deny the permit if the applicant uses illegal drugs or is a habitual/chronic alcohol user. Some sheriffs are more CCW-friendly than others, so some may be inclined to look for reasons to deny the applicant. If the neighbor says that the applicant is a drunk, or that he's seen the applicant rollin' doobies on the back porch, then the application might be denied.
 
Slight divert. The FBI agents that visited my neighbor when I got my clearance offered them fried squirrel. Fried in lard.
He claimed they were impolite and wouldn't sit on the sofa. The one that had four hound dogs on it.
By the time they were done they were a bit wheezy, wood stove leaked smoke at times depending on the wind.
This is the neighbor that called Nixon a lefty and a crook.
I had no problem with the clearance. :p
 
Seriously, what is the point of the police asking your neighbors about you? If your like normal people who keep to themselves and bitch about the neighbors dog crapping on your lawn everymorning you have a problem person that will be most happy to turn your morning cigarrette into something crackish..

just 2 cents here
 
Bezoar, I can certainly see interviewing the neighbors when it comes to a security clearance. After all, they're looking deeper into whether you can be trusted or not. While of less value in today's air conditioned suburban neighborhoods, in many of the others you'd be suprised what the neighbors know.

As for carry permits, I could see it as an 'above and beyond' type thing, but the police had better be careful of the standings of the neighbors themselves, as they may be the reason for the application in the first place.

My security clearance funny - The neighbors, retired couples on both sides and across the street, wouldn't answer the door when the agent came by because they thought he was a jehova's witness. At least until one of the husbands was home and answered the door, upon which he called the other two and let them know it was alright.

mrmeval - you might want to re-read your post. It looks like you're saying that the FBI agents offered the neighbor squirrel.
 
As always THR and it's members are a valuable resource. I appreciate everyone's input.
I'll say again that I really didn't mind too much that the permit was late and personal references were being conducted. What really bothered me was the Sheriff's Dept. disclosing that I was applying for a CCW permit.
...but the police had better be careful of the standings of the neighbors themselves, as they may be the reason for the application in the first place.
Click to expand...
Or theives, drug dealers/users etc, although not the case here as I know this neighbor is a good person. She did seem a little "anti" because she asked why I felt the need to carry a gun. Now my wife thinks she's afraid of us. However, if the Sheriff would have gone one door to the left he'd be talking to a group of young renters that I know almost nothing about; for all I know he did talk to them.
I will take the advice given here to talk to Sheriff Hoy and determine if this is SOP and who was contacted. Beyond that I don't see the point for a lawyer other than preventing this from happening to others which does have merit, of course. I have not necessarily been harmed (yet) just somewhat inconvenienced and "out-ed" to the neighbors (I now know at least one other neighbor was notified). I will call the Sheriff's Dept. on Monday and update you here.
Thanks as always.
 
Deputy askin' neighbors

At some point, sooner or later, you need to get some insight into what led to that.

It would seem perfectly in order to ask the sheriff why they felt it necessary to inform the neighbors that you are armed and plan to carry.

I should think the sheriff needs to have a better answer than "because I can."
 
Sounds like the person you spoke with admitted that the Sheriff's office dropped the ball to some extent. That may be leverage, when you speak to the elected man himself.
 
So now you know what "infringed" means.

Would you rather they say, "I'm doing a criminal background investigation of Wolfpackin" or "I'm doing a concealed carry permit investigation of Wolfpackin?"

If they're going to require background checks for people to carry, then I hope they do it right. Running your vitals in some faraway database is one thing, but a negative result proves nothing. It only disproves a little bit.

If they go to your house and visit your neighbors and verify your workplace, that's a lot more background information.
 
This does sound exactly like the process used to obtain a Gov't security clearance. :uhoh:

I thought the entire purpose of providing your address on your ccw application is to prove residency and to allow them to do a State & Local Criminal Background Check (which is done via database if I am not mistaken).

I am curious what questions they asked your neighbors about you as part of the checking process or if they really there strictly on a "inform the neighborhood" basis? :rolleyes:

I don't know if I would go to the expense of hiring a lawyer because in the end law enforcement in these cases would probably prevail (at least in Virginia they most likely would, as I am not sure there is anything written prohibiting this practice), but I would contact your State Attorney's Office and ask if this is considered an "Acceptable Practice".
 
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