Out of state CCW permit to avoid fingerprinting?

[Owen Sparks]

My state requires concealed carry applicants to submit their finger prints to the FBI. I just don’t trust the federal government with my finger prints so I never got a permit. This has never been a problem though because my state allows anyone to carry a loaded gun in their car without a permit as well as on their property, in their home or business.

I am traveling more now and most neighboring states do not allow guns in cars without permits yet they have reciprocity and all bordering states in my area recognize each other’s CCW permits.
Could it be possible for me to apply for a permit in another state that does not require finger printing? I have a legitimate reason as I travel through there a lot. I also have a reason not to need one in my home state because a permit is not required for me to have a pistol in my car.

 

[Art Eatman]

First, find that no-print state, if any.

Find out what your own state's laws are concerning an out-of-state license without having an in-state license. It's possible that your state's laws are set up to keep that from happening.

And given the rate of technological advancement and governmental interest in using biometrics in identification, worrying about your prints in the FBI's files is pretty much a minor item.

 

[MtnCreek]

I guess it depends on the permit application. If the terms of the application state that you must be a resident, then the answer would be no.

 

[brickeyee]

I just don’t trust the federal government with my finger prints so I never got a permit.

What do you think they might do?

Transplant them on someone else?

 

[Owen Sparks]

The idea of having to submit fingerprints before being allowed to exercise an enumerated constitutional right just goes against my libertarian principles. I should not have to prove that I am one of the “good guys” before excercising a right; the state should have to prove that I am not. The burden of proof should be on the accuser.

 

[dirtykid]

Mn permit requires fingerprint also, since im not a criminal and dont plan on being one, I didnt give it much thought, I suppose THEY could "plant" it at crime scene,, ,, Most every state i've checked requires you to prove residence,although some only require something as simple as a mailing address and a current phone/utility bill,,(which wouldnt be hard if you knew someone that lived there),, I notice alot of people dont even post what state they are from,, Are those of you worried someone would "know" who you are and that you like guns ?? Im not !!

 

[JerryM]

I have so many fingerprint cards on file that I suspect all agents know me by name. It has never been a problem for me, and I don't give it a second thought.

I would be surprised if any state would issue a CHL without fingerprints.

I like the idea, and think it prevents some who should not have a CHL from obtaining one.
I do not intend to argue that, so take it or leave it.

Regards,
Jerry

 

[il_10]

I agree with you that you shouldn't be fingerprinted to get a license, but the license itself is as bad of an infraction against our rights as the fingerprinting if you're coming from that standpoint. Enumerated Constitutional rights shouldn't be licensed at all, so if you're worried about fingerprinting as being contrary to your beliefs, the license itself falls right into the same category... see what I'm getting at?
If you have a real concern about the fingerprints in and of themselves, that's a different ball game, but ideological opposition to government infringement on our rights from a libertarian standpoint already puts the license into "ethically bad" territory.

I'm not disagreeing with you in the least, but you can have the license or not have the license with all those options entail; to want the license but not want the fingerprinting for ideological purposes doesn't make a ton of sense. In VA they have to destroy the fingerprints after a certain period of time, so even if they did hang on to them and database them, that wouldn't be admissible evidence in court, so there's nothing to worry about there either (if your state is similar).

 

[ForumSurfer]

Like many others, I feel you shouldn't need to get finger printed.

But that is just how it is.

I've held government jobs that required clearances, so my fingerprints are in all sorts of local, state, federal and military databases.

The idea of having to submit fingerprints before being allowed to exercise an enumerated constitutional right just goes against my libertarian principles. I should not have to prove that I am one of the “good guys” before excercising a right; the state should have to prove that I am not. The burden of proof should be on the accuser.

I agree %150. Unfortunately, it is what it is. Good luck changing it or even finding a state that doesn't require it. Even if your prints don't initially go to the feds, they will do so in the near future without notifying you. More and more agencies are sharing as much data and records as possible within the limits of the law.

I'd rather have my fingerprints on file than not have my ccw, but that is just me.

 

[Scimmia]

I would be surprised if any state would issue a CHL without fingerprints.

there are a few that do, I didn't have to get fingerprinted in IA. Unfortunately, the two most common out of state permits, UT and FL, both require fingerprints, and Iowa doesn't issue non-professional permits to non-residents.

 

[Dimis]

have fun with your move to arizona or vermont
to my knowledge those are the only states that allow carry without a permit and in that would bypass the fingerprinting (and yes if you got a permit in Az im sure it requires prints too)

 

[jimmyraythomason]

I would be surprised if any state would issue a CHL without fingerprints.

Alabama does not require fingerprints or photo. I don't think Alabama will issue a permit to a non-resident though but I'm could be wrong.

 

[henschman]

Go to www.handgunlaw.us and Check to see if your state has reciprocity with Maine. I looked into this same issue for the exact same reasons as you, and discovered that Maine is the only state which doesn't routinely require fingerprints for their application that also issues a non-resident permit.

Fortunately for me, my home state of Oklahoma has reciprocity with Maine, so that is the route I chose to go with. Another nice thing about Maine's permit is that the fee is only $60. The only "training" requirement is that you must pass a handgun safety course that is honored by a state government. I found an online gun safety course offered by Maryland that only took a half hour or less, and gave me a nice certificate to send in with my Maine license application.

I actually posted about this whole process on this forum. I think it was in the "legal" section, and is titled something like "what states do not require fingerprints for CCL?" run a search or look in my post history to find it.

Be aware that there is an issue with the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act when carrying pursuant to a non-resident permit... in the event that you are ever detained by a federal agent within 1000' of a school zone while carrying.

Hope this helps.

 

[archigos]

IIRC, PA doesn't require fingerprints. However, PA does require that you have a permit from your state of residence before they'll issue a non-resident permit.

 

[Telekinesis]

Alabama doesn't require fingerprints, but they don't issue permits to non residents and the age requirement differs between counties. (probably not an issue for any of you here, but just thought I'd add it in.)

Like someone else said, check out Maine. They are pretty easy to deal with and got mine back almost exactly on time. Only issue was finding a training course close by (oh, and the Utah CCW course for their permit also works for Maine ).

Another problem is that they aren't that big on reciprocity. For that, look into a New Hampshire permit which has much more recognition across the country. (NH requires that you already have A permit, but it does not have to be from your home state, so that's where a Maine permit would help as well.)

Neither of these permits require fingerprints and both states issue to non-residents 18 years of age or older.

It would help if you could tell us what state you lived in (or which states you want/need reciprocity in) if you want more specific information...

 

[Lucky Derby]

have fun with your move to arizona or vermont
to my knowledge those are the only states that allow carry without a permit and in that would bypass the fingerprinting (and yes if you got a permit in Az im sure it requires prints too)

You can add Alaska now and Wyoming in a couple of months to that list.

 

[zxcvbob]

Minnesota does not require fingerprinting and will issue a permit to a nonresident. The catch is you have to submit the paperwork in person (to any MN sheriff's office)

http://www.bca.state.mn.us/cjis/documents/CarryPermit/FAQs.html

 

[zoom6zoom]

IIRC, PA doesn't require fingerprints. However, PA does require that you have a permit from your state of residence before they'll issue a non-resident permit.

However, they no longer issue by mail.

 

[Husker_Fan]

Maybe I'll get flamed for this, but I have no problem with the fingerprinting. Most people here say the government should enforce the laws already on the books and then we wouldn't need new restrictions. Most here also seem to agree felons (at least violent ones) should be prohibited persons.

But then, people want to keep the government from enforcing the law by not giving them information that helps verify if a person is prohibited.

 

[rscalzo]

The NJ system now requires fingerprinting by a private corporation. We no longer roll them as they are now totally live scan digital. On the upside, we get a response in an hour or two via email vs. the old mail them and and wait...and wait...and wait.

No idea about other states but we had two distant set of cards. Criminal and applicant. Applicant cards were all returned back to the submitting agency.

 

[henschman]

Telekenesis, that is a pretty good idea about getting a New Hampshire permit through a Maine permit to widen the number of states it is good in. A NH permit still isn't as widely accepted as a Florida or Utah, but it gets you several more states -- namely MS, AL, GA, PA, and NH. It would be a good way to get licensed in your state if you live in one of the ones who honor NH but not ME. A NH 4-year permit costs $100.

Does anyone else know of any other states which will issue a non-resident permit based on another state's non-resident permit?

 

[Telekinesis]

I originally got into this combination because I wanted to carry while I was traveling, but my local AL sheriff wouldn't issue me a permit (apparently being 20 means I'm incompetent with a handgun?) and these were the only two permits that got me reciprocity with the majority of states around me while being ok with my age and accepting mail order applications Unfortunately AL has one little clause in the code that keeps me from carrying inside the state with my NH permit. Even though the Jeff Co. permit investigator says otherwise

North Dakota was also a contender until I went to apply and found that they changed their permit structure requiring you to take a permit class within the borders of the state. If I'd gotten on it 6 months earlier I could have gotten that one too...

As a side note to anyone reading this who is under 21, it really helps your credibility when buying pistols FTF if you have a permit or multiple permits to carry. I've lost track of how many sellers told me that they wouldn't have sold me the gun because of my age if I hadn't had a permit.

 

[zxcvbob]

The idea of having to submit fingerprints before being allowed to exercise an enumerated constitutional right just goes against my libertarian principles. I should not have to prove that I am one of the “good guys” before excercising a right; the state should have to prove that I am not. The burden of proof should be on the accuser.

That, plus once my prints are on file somewhere the possibility exists for them to come up as a false-positive on a search. (I didn't get my permit until after I found out my state doesn't require prints; I thought they all did) Maybe the prints do not get stored, but I don't trust the .gov to throw away a juicy piece of data like that even if the law says they have to.

 

[MedWheeler]

I have no problem with being printed, either. The first time I was ever printed was during enlistment in the US Army. I was also printed for the two law enforcement positions I held, and for the school board here as well when I did some part-time teaching.
Personally, I believe that the more people who get over the "the 2nd amendment is my permit" attitude, the better our cause becomes as the numbers of lawful carriers rises. It becomes harder and harder to argue that citizens support laws further restricting carry (or even ownership) of firearms when more and more are applying for carry licenses.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Alabama doesn't require fingerprints,..... the age requirement differs between counties.

This is true but the minimum age(between 18 and 21) is set by the sheriff of the county not the county itself. The Alabama state age requirement is 18. Alabama sheriffs have a lot of discretion in issuing permits.