Vets: Anybody pack a shotgun in a war zone?

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Nightcrawler

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I'm trying to find a respectful way to ask this question. I mean, for many, talking about their experiences in war is a difficult task.

So, if you don't mind my asking, has anyone here carried a shotgun into a war zone? Even though they've been very rarely issued, as Dave McC says, they always find their way into the war. I saw troops in Iraq clearing a house with a bone stock Remington 870, for example (on TV).

So, did you carry a shotgun in a war zone? If so, what kind? If you don't mind disclosing it, how'd you get your hands on it? Was it issue, or acquired through the, erm, alternate supply chain? Why'd you choose it over, say, a rifle?

Thanks!
 
SEA, 1970. A battered 97 Winchester was part of our crew equipment.Dunno how it got there. It was a riot barreled job but no heat shield nor bayonet lug. I used it on sentry duty a few times, and it was comforting to me. Never fired a shot other than familiarization with it. Firefights are what M-14s are made for.

It was for night fighting, done close and fast.
 
You know, Dave, I always though that's where a shotgun would excell. At night, when it's so dark you can't see your sights, muchless get a good sight picture, and even if you could, you can't see anything more than 20 feet in front of you anyways.

Seems that a shotgun with a bead sight would be about ideal, barring aiming gizmos like a red dot or something.
 
I used one for boarding party security detail enforcing the UN sanctions against Iraq during the first gulf war and operations following the war. Never shot anyone with it, and only was close once to shooting someone with it but he "saw the light" in the black hole that was pointed right at his chest and ceased his activities PRONTO.

Shotguns are fantastic for close range fast work where the troops involved are not trained in the effective implementation of a sub-machinegun. Shipboard work is one place where the shotgun is very well suited, the ricochet potential is much lower with the buckshot than it would be with a jacketed bullet in a solid steel structure. Subguns are better in most cases when the troops have the extensive training needed to use them correctly and well though.

I felt quite well armed going into harm's way with a pumpgun full of OO and an old rattling GI 1911A1 on my hip....
 
In VietNam MP's carried them as did troops in the field. There is a forum that discusses military shotguns.
 
I carried a parkerized Ithaca Mod 37 riot with 20 inch barrel and extended magazine. My father sent it over to me in 1968 after I weathered TET virtually unarmed, in a hotel in Saigon (the Continental) . Seems they didn't inspect care packages COMING OVER to VN! I sold the gun to another when I left that first tour. I used to carry it taken down when I was in rifle country ( but on a bad op)and as I remember I used to hump 25 brass US issue 00buckshot shells. It was REAL nice in a bunker under the bed in a fire support base . . Funny thing; only confirmed kill I got was with a 1911 at 10 feet! I wish I had that model again I think mine was an LAPD overrun gun and my dad paid $100 for it as I remember!:cool:
 
You know that was a long time ago, I THINK I remember the magazine being right behind muzzle. Pretty sure it was 7 round cap, definitely was 2 3/4" only. I am reasonably sure it was an LAPD issue gun, and it had bead sight only not DS.nice parkerizing with flat walnut wood and rattail forearm and sling swivels.Might have been 18" and maybe 5rds BUT I don't think so as everybody thought it was way cool back then, when I thumbed in at least six rounds!:confused:
 
I know the Infantry companies within the 101st have Remington 870's in their arms rooms. I believe it's something like 1 per platoon. I believe they took them with us to Kosovo, but kept them in the arms room and didn't issue them out. They may have issued them in the 'Stan, but I'm not sure. Heck, they would have been totally useless in the Shah-i-Kowt valley anyways. I wouldn't doubt they're using them now though.

Frank
 
Firefights are what M-14s are made for
Click to expand...

Seems as if you have quite a fondess for the M14, Dave, as well you should! Just curious on your field/combat experience with the M14 and how it preformed/held up? You familar with the www.battlerifles.com board? You may be interested in checking it out.
 
Blain, a certain M-14 saved me in SEA long ago. But, I was a scared half trained kid trying to get home, not some hero. And, my involvement was peripheral, not hip deep in VC all the time. Other folks had it much rougher.

I came out of it with a shoulder that tells me when rain is on the way, and a couple important lessons.

First, if it's not life threatening, it's just an annoyance, and not worth getting upset over.

Second, when honorable behavior was risky, I behaved honorably, and a couple pretty good guys made it home because of that. Saving lives is much more satisfying than taking them.

Third, some things should be taken to the grave, and are not to burden folks that love us with.
 
Shotguns are a standard part of most unit armories. Their role depends mostly on the role of the unit. The most common uses are breaching and police work. Not many folks are willing to trade in a rifle for a shotgun when the possibility of a gunfight is involved. More of a tool than a weapon really.
 
Carried an Ithaca model 37 that had the bbl cut down to in front of the pump handle and the butt cut off and grip rounded down, BBL had a duck bill spreader on it , and we used nu-4 buckshot ,, also used the flechets in it all work well for what it was intended to do
 
One of the few war stories my grandfather tells is about a double barreled shot gun that he and another fella kept in a dugout on the Rhine. One of the locals had given it to them as he was getting outta dodge so to speak, along with a few hundred rounds of bird shot. He said they only had to use it a few times, and the birdshot wasn't lethal. But it sure kept the German's heads down until he could get another belt fed into the .30. Last I heard his friend still had it when he passed on.
 
1965-1966, operation "Market Time" off the South Vietnamese coast, searching fishing boats for gun running. USS Vance, DER 387.

We used M-1 Garands (.30-06, not rechambered to 7.62), Thompsons, M1911A1 pistols, and Model 97 "riot" guns loaded with military brass shells when doing boarding parties. If you wanted to look cool in a picture, you carried the Thompson. If you thought there might be a fight, you carried the 97. Didn't have to shoot anyone.
 
Former USN combat photographer carried a `97 during two fun-filled SEA tours.
Gentlemen, for things that go "bump in the night," 00 buckshot is wonderful medicine.
 
Might be laughable, but I carried a Riot 870 daily for about 6 months of wildlife patrol. I've killed with a shotgun on duty probably more times than anybody. I'd kept a running count because the Feds wanted us to report the number of waterfowl we'd taken. IIRC, last count was about 120 ducks of various flavors, 38 geese, 50 or so Pigeons, (but more than half of those were pelet-rifle shots) and a dozen or so Seagulls, and one assist on a two-legged injured fox! No, I didn't injure the fox myself, it was a trapped fox that got loose and I tracked it to put it down. I didn't lead enough... you'd be surprised how fast a fox can run on two legs!... and shot it in the behind.

On the shotguns, we qualified with five shots of OO buck plastic cased shooting at silhouettes at an indoor range. There were about 10 guns, half with the full-magazine bayonet lug setup and half with rifle-sighted IC barrels we'd bought for bear protection up here. Made it tough to shoot birds on the wing, but most of what we shot was on the ground. We had to buy steel shot at the BX to satisfy our waterfoul permit.

Drove a truck or HumVee through most of the work. Made us really appreciate SHORT BARRELS on a shotgun when you get in and out of the truck all day long. Also made us appreciate a sling that was there when you needed it but didn't get in the way of the trigger or foreend when you didn't need it!

Wasn't a war zone, but the Geese had killed 24 American and Canadian Airmen the year before. I sure as heck felt like we were saving lives.
 
Good job Badger,
Lost a good friend on that bird.

We have 10 shotguns in the locker, all 870's 18 1/2 " 5 shooters bead sights. Have taken them on every deployment, but other than as a comforter in the CP they dont get used much.

Earlier in my career I carried one in preference to the XCM177's that were hten being issued to dog handlers.
Never could hit beans with the 177 and the shotgun was perfect for wandering through a Phillipine swamp in the dark. Untricked Model 12 ocassionally one of those old "double humpbacked" Stevens pumps.


Sam
 
Sure was Rob, 74-76 Cflt K-9. You spend some time over there?
1st Sgt for the 49 CES at Holloman now days.

The DoD local guards generally carried shotguns and GI,s carried a 16 or 177. Most GI's wouldn't have been caught dead with a shotgun but that was a status thing more than anything else

Sam
 
You spend some time over there?
Click to expand...

Yes I did. Dec. 88 thru Dec 90. I worked C flt. Security. Yes the DOD guards still carried shotguns. Their Flight Chiefs call sign was "Buckshot". It was an interesting two years to say the least.
 
Yup Gewehr, I had some of that over the last 30years or so .I am kinda exicted Wolf is making something along that line now!:)
 
Knew you'd like it!

My Dad retired from Olin's Badger Army Ammunition Plant. The guards carried this stuff in their trucks, along with the Model 12's and 870's. I was told it was favored because heat and humidity didn't affect the shells or their functioning in the guns when needed most. ;)
 
Shotguns in 'Nam

My air scout platooon supported LRRP's and RECON in '68-68. Both had shotgun men. I carried in my LOH (among other things) an M79 gernade launcher with buckshot loads. Very effective.
 
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