Vids of concealed draws

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CraigJS

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I may have missed some somewhere but I don't recall ever seeing a video, private or pro of a carry piece being drawn from any kind of cover garment.
I've seen many of the fast draw (sub 2 second) videos from holsters hanging free with NO shirt, jacket, sweat shirt, or vest to slow the draw. I've read many posts about practice for a fast and smooth draw, pressing out for the sight picture, proper grip, trigger control etc. BUT never anyone ever showing it being done, properly or not properly.
A video showing the good and bad points of different types of cover gear would do so much more than showing that sub second double tap, from a Blade Tec (etc.) DOH, by a guy that has done that draw 1000's of times..
Anyone know of any?
Be safe.
 
I remember maybe a week or two ago, someone posted a video clip from Miami Vice showing a BG drawing a 1911 from under his shirt and firing off several rounds in about one second.

Yeah, it's a TV show, and it probably took 20 takes to get it that fast, but damn that was an impressive draw.


edit; here's the thread.
 
Watch tom cruise in collateral.

Also, search youtube for IDPA footage. IIRC, they are mandated to use cover garments.

BTW, since when is a 2 sec draw "fast?"

~~~Mat
 
I said SUB 2 second draw. From not be prepared such as most people on the street would be. By being prepared I mean not knowing when you will have to draw, not someone pushing their own timer button or another person telling them "ready". Most comps while having to have a cover garment on, those covers are as little as a shirt unbuttoned, hanging loose. I'm talking about real world cover garments. Tee shirts, sweat shirts, jackets (spring or winter), buttoned up shirts. Not everone walks around looking like they are going to or comming from the beach!
By the way while very showy, are you sure that was in fact T.C. doing the draw? doubt it..
Be safe.
 
I routinely carried a Vektor in an IWB at 2 o'clock, strong side, with a T-shirt covering the gun. My draws were under 2 seconds.
That was in South Africa where I would practice the draw at least twice a day with a fully loaded gun with the safety engaged. Here was the procedure for me:

1) Left hand grips the hem of the T-shirt at 1 o'clock and yanks high.
2) Right hand is already there, going for the grip, pinkie touches first.
3) The gun is free to pull (there is no strap or press stud, I use belt tension to retain the gun in a soft synthetic holster).

It's all about timing. I would say that most of the draw failures were caused by a fast right hand encountering the T-shirt. I also practised single hand draws, with an intentional T-shirt grasp. This gets you one shot from the hip but you might get a stoppage because of failure to eject. At least with the Vektor the safety is in the trigger guard so if you can draw the gun and get your finger in, you can definitely fire at least one shot in a pinch.

But you really have to practice daily so that you instinctively know where the grip is. I was pretty darn fast when I was carrying daily, but if I tried it today I would probably fumble it (even without the stress of the engagement)
 
That page (on You Tube) had the "Devo" scene from Miami Vice as well. Anyone know what the semi is in that one that gets loaded? And the car? Always loved that car!
 
Regarding Jim Zubiena, drawing and firing in the "Miami Vice" episode...

Quote:
it probably took 20 takes to get it that fast

I think you meant "years of practice as a competitive shooter."


Yep, he is that fast, and yep, he practiced for competition for years.

I used to shoot against Jim in IPSC competition in the old Southwest Pistol League, when I lived in Los Angeles. He's a highly trained competitor. Also happens to be a very nice man.

FWIW.

L.W.
 
If you watch the bonus features on the DVD of collateral, you'll find that it was indeed TC performing the all the shooting.

Anyhow, I'm particularly fond of open front concealment garments. I use a dickies long tailed work shirt when I'm in t-shirt and jeans mode, or throw on a sportcoat for dressier occasions. I haven't had occasion to get dressier than that for quite a while. About the only time that I button up is when it's preposterously windy out.

As far as draw times go, here are the various types that I practice. All times from relaxed, upright stance, with hands at loose at sides, from random buzzer to A-zone hit, at 6 yds.

Cowboy Action: .75 to .85 Sec
1911 from kydex, no cover: .70 to .80
1911 from leather, high ride, muzzle rear, no cover: .95 to 1.05 Sec
1911 from same leather, with open front cover: 1.25 to 1.35
1911 from same leather with closed front cover: 1.65 to 1.75 Sec

I guess sub 2 sec wasn't that bad an estimate after all. Just not my favorite number to think about. Sounds suspiciously like "eternity," to me.

~~~Mat
 
I've gotten nearly as good drawing from under a button-up or long tshirt by pulling the shirt up with the strong hand and going for the gun. I'm not sure the two-handed 'shirt with the weak hand and gun with the strong hand' draw is actually any better. I'd say I can draw nearly as fast as open. I practice every night just a couple draws (empty).
 
Nice times Mat, just that I haven't seen any videos shot with concealment clothing being worn. It would be interesting to see different setups and the actions needed to make them work.. I quess it goes back to the old practice, practice ,practice thing.
Be safe.
 
BTW, since when is a 2 sec draw "fast?"

Since most people who conceal carry can't do it and hit anything beyond 3 yards, assuming they manage to pull the trigger in time.

Before becoming gainfully employed, I shot a lot more and competed-always wearing a concealment garment and my carry gun. I got a kick out of beating folks with their fancy race holsters and such with open carry. I was to the point that I considered anything over 1.8 seconds to hit an IDPA silhouette center circle at 7 yards was too slow. Then I started to notice a pattern. My first set or two of the day always had the worst times or worst hit ratio, if not both. So I started tracking them.

The drill was simple. Walking into the range off the street, set up my target, put on muffs and glasses, making no adjustments to be sure the gun was in the sweet spot of carry, go to the line, hit the timer, wait for the tone, tone, draw and fire a Mozambique at 7 yards with a par time of 2.5 seconds with COM shots in the center IDPA circle and a head shot good for anywhere on the head. That is a 1.8 draw, with .20 seconds for the follow-up on the tap, and then .50 seconds to transition to the head and hit it. The drill was shot with carry ammo since it was what I carried on the street.

Why the criteria? These were as close to real life criteria as I could set up on a consistent basis for skill assessment that would mimic the facets of real life being that the ammo was defense ammo and not range ammo, the gun was in whatever position it would be in at the time the event started as would be the concealment garment (whatever it was and with whatever problems were inherent to that type of garment), and shooting stone cold. After all, in real life, bad guys don't let you adjust your gun to the optimal angle or position, untuck your shirt, fluff your vest to make sure it isn't snagging, load in light range ammo (as some people practice with), or warm up. Of course, this did not mimic other factors such as being on the move, scared, in a crowd of people, etc.

What I found for me and for other shooters is something I saw paralleled with most non-professional competition shooters who could not warm up before matches. Comparatively speaking, we were much less skilled and/or slower when shooting cold than when shooting warmed up.

For me, if I met the par time, then one or more of my shots did not hit their designated areas. More often than not, one of my COM double taps was outside of the circle. Sometimes a head shot would be a complete miss. Or, if I made all the shots, then I usually didn't make par time. This was quite sobering. I was not as good as my best warmed up times in regard to counting on what I would have available on the street.

Some folks I ran through the drill were downright scary. I watched fairly decent warmed-up shooters do their best at 7 yards and completely miss the entire IDPA target with one of the two COM shots and completely miss the head shot and still not make the par time.

Several facets came about. It became obvious what garments did not want to work very well for this sort of cold draw drills, what holsters don't work so well without adjustment, etc. For example, I learned that blousy dress shirts were often easily captured when I gripped my IWB carried 1911, significantly hampering the draw. I learned to work through such obstructions, but also that I needed to buy more fitted shirts.

The bottom line here is that a lot of us are very good warmed up shooters and have great times, but few of us are honest very good cold shooters for social situations where cold shooting is all we have at hand. From this information, I determined that I could only count on being as good as my worst recent cold shooting day. This was I thought was the best reasonable assessment of my available skills. In retrospect and given that it didn't factor in so many things, it may still have been an optimistic assessment.

Movie footage is cute and everything, but there is no accuracy required and as noted, they get as many tries as they want and as much warmup as they want.
 
Here is a vid of a guy drawing from a concealed carry holster, I think this is pretty normal, like you and I would perform.
 
So does anyone have any modifications on the close quarters drills for a lefty? If I held my gun as tight in to my body as the man in the video posted by Nio I can almost guarantee a jam or malfunction due to the brass bouncing off my body.
 
Great post, DNS! You hit many truths and certainly provide much food for thought.

I'll approach my next trip to the range from several different perspectives.
 
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