Views on Guns Changing in Philly?

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Colt

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I heard a public service announcement on the leading Philadelphia a.m. news/traffic station (1060) this morning. It's making me think there may be a change in the way guns and gun crimes are being thought of in the city.

The city's DA (Lynn Abraham) started the message, and she basically said that the overwhelming majority of the city's "gun crimes" are committed with illegally owned guns obtained through straw purchases. She mentioned innocent children caught in the cross fire, etc...

Then Pennsylvania's Attorney General (Tom Corbett) came on and gave a very clear definition of exactly what a straw purchase is. He went so far as to say that the person making the purchase is usually a girlfriend or an individual earning drug money. (He actually came out and said this)

The AT concluded the message with the following line:

"If you make a straw purchase, and that gun is used to commit a crime, or kill a child, we will find you, you will be arrested, and you will go to jail."

This entire radio spot struck me as a victory for law-abiding gun owners. It wasn't the typical "guns are evil" message the city's mayor uses, and it didn't demonize gun ownership in general. It points out that the vast majority of the crimes are commited with guns illegally obtained via straw purchases. The message doesn't make the usual claim that there are "just too many guns in the city, and that they all need to be taken off the street."

Seemed like a positive radio spot to me. Fewer straw purchases can only help law-abiding gun owners. And for the first time in memory, we weren't lumped in with the criminals.
 
Well, I want a sample larger than 1 before I start suspecting the leapard has changed it's spots.

Lynne Abraham is a gun bigot of the first order. (I don't know about Corbet one way or the other)

If anything, I take it as evidence of the political system working as intended in PA. PHL has been whining for special exemptions to the state constitution for decades, and the legislature, courts and the People have been telling them "no, no, no!" for decades.

By effectively firewalling them from what they _can't_ do, they are forced to actually implement what they _can_ do, which is to enforce the already generous laws that exist.


Of course, saying they'll find, catch, prosecute, convict and incarcerate you is different from actually doing it, and I have well founded doubts on PHL's ability to make it stick. But the radio spot's a far cry better than the billboard that proclaims "The gun you bought to protect yourself will be stolen and used to kill my kid".
 
Don't let it fool you. They still hate your legal gun, too.


Think about it.


--They are saying "illegal guns" are causing crimes.

--They are saying "straw purchases" are causing crimes.



Notice something odd?


On of those is an inanimate object and the other is an action.


It is still the "Blame the Tool" mentality. Personal responsibility is no longer part of the equation in addressing societal ills because that requires:

1. Actually "judging" a behavior
2. Effort on the part of the object of their concern.


We can't have that, now.


-- John
 
I've heard the same spot. When it first started out I thought "here we go again - we must ban all guns, guns are evil", but I was pleasantly surprised. I came away thinking the same thing as you.
Have you seen the posters on the back of the Septa buses (with the Sig P229)? It's targets straw purchases as well.
Its about time that criminal activity (straw purchases) was the target of the commercials, and not lawfully purchased and owned guns.
 
PA, AG...an individual earning drug money. (He actually came out and said this)
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No kidding!!!

Wow, somebody actually put 2 and 2 together. We've been verbally fighting a drug war for something like 40 years. Crime, especially gun crimes started going up during the 60's as did drug use. about the same time the states started emptying out the mental institutions and giving early releases. Anti's love all the free press generated about gun usage in crime but they never mention the underlying causes.
If we had devoted the amount of money, material and personnel to fighting the drug war as we have to over throwing governments and invading other countries we'd have a pretty good country ourselves.
Instead it has come down to the citizens having to take up arms literally to protect themselves from the drug crazed criminals and mental cases. Oh wait, they are one in the same so it seems.
 
--They are saying "illegal guns" are causing crimes.
Click to expand...
In this spot they don't say "illegal guns" like they usually do, they say "illegally purchased guns". I always listen carefully for that. Thats what gave me a very very small glimmer of hope (very small!)
Don't get me wrong, I don't trust Lynne Abraham or any politician in the PHL region, but at least they didn't target legally purchased guns or legal gun owners like they usually do in this spot.
 
Yeah, but they're still forbidding gun purchases in the Commonwealth of PA, for 5 days after Labor Day. Gun shop owners are complaining that this is their busiest time. Fast Eddie (Rendell) doesn't care.

It's the first step in being able to ban gun purchases any time they feel like it.

Don't be fooled. It's a very anti-gun city government, in Philly. I mean, they all have a ton of armed bodyguards, so who the hell cares about the rest of us not being able to walk the streets. They don't have to walk the streets. They are all chauferred by Philly's Phinest.
 
Believe me, I know that Philly is very anti-gun. I've lived here all of my life (44 years) I thank God for the middle part of the state to balance out the antis in the Philly and Pitts area.

Yeah, but they're still forbidding gun purchases in the Commonwealth of PA, for 5 days after Labor Day. Gun shop owners are complaining that this is their busiest time. Fast Eddie (Rendell) doesn't care.
Click to expand...
Thats a whole other issue. It's going to be interesting to see how many law suits are filed by gun shops and others.
 
I had a few conversations with one of Angel Cruz (rep from Philly) associates.
For those of you in PA, Cruz was Rendell's front man for introducing anti-rights laws during this legislative session.

My point (a few months back) was as long as the straw purchasers were allowed to plead down to a lesser charge, they'd make not dent in violence...also, they were focusing on "Gun" violence...and not violence. I also asked him...and many other anti-rights reps (over the course of the summer) how many guns were prosecuted for crimes....not people...guns.

We also went in to the root cause of violence..again, it's not guns (just a tool)...mostly drug money. I also offered my opinion of jobs being exported...and that needs to be addressed at the federal level...not in Philadelphia.


JWarren is right...they hate guns and peoples' right to bear arms. So, a small victory such as this is great...but never forget their goal is to eliminate guns...and rights.
 
Silence...
Seriously, there was no answer to that question. And, that happened more then once. I said...until you can show me ONE gun that killed someone with intent....Rendell and all his cohorts have no credibility.
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Thats great - good job!
 
Are they, ummm.... oh, never mind. It's a stupid thought...

Well, maybe I'll thow it out there anyhow and you can call me stupid and dumb and iggerent all you want.

Ummm... (hesitates) are they up for... ahhhh... re-election, by any chance?

Just blue-skying it, y'know? Oh, never mind me.
 
For those of you in PA, Cruz was Rendell's front man for introducing anti-rights laws during this legislative session.
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Cudos to you for properly characterizing their intent and actions as anti-rights, rather than anti-gun.
 
Ummm... (hesitates) are they up for... ahhhh... re-election, by any chance?
Click to expand...
We have NO SHOT of voting them out of office.
There are too many uneducated voters in the Philly area that vote Democrat because the brothers and sisters (Mayor Streets words) are running (and ruining) the city. Philly has had Democrapic mayors for probably the last 50 + years.
 
I would be interested in knowing whether Mr. Corbett truly understands what a straw purchase is. I'm guessing he does, and I wouldn't take his statements and make too many deductions about them, but I'm still curious.

Interestingly enough, many people don't realize that you CAN buy a gun for another person without it being a straw purchase. The key - is who that person is.
 
"We have NO SHOT of voting them out of office.
There are too many uneducated voters in the Philly area that vote Democrat because the brothers and sisters (Mayor Streets words) are running (and ruining) the city. Philly has had Democrapic mayors for probably the last 50 + years."
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, quite true...we'd need pro-rights blacks to run in Philly.
However, the suburbs surrounding Philly are attainable. But the pressure needs to come from the constituents from those districts.
Another thing...currently, Philly is the only class A city in PA (well, not sure about Pittsburgh) and it's losing population. If that population get below 1 million (which I think is the definition of a Class A city), they'd lose their status.
Three things to watch for:
1) Redefinition of a Class A city or expansion of that definition.
2) Repeal of the State Pre-emption laws concerning CCW and other gun laws.
3) Gangbanger activity increasing in towns and cities west of Phlly (Lancaster is a good example...York isn't as bad yet, but getting there)

I subscribe to the PA Legislative updates (get a daily update on bills introduced). A few folks monitor these so we can get the word out...we post on http://www.pafoa.org/forum

So far, everything I've read of Tom Corbett has been positive insofar as rights.
 
Interesting thoughts. I don't think for a minute that Street and his gang have turned a corner, but the mere fact that this ad is running is a positive thing.

If anything, I take it as evidence of the political system working as intended in PA.
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This makes sense. PA constitution doesn't allow pre-emption in the city. Street, Rendell, et al, try to get the legislature to amend, and fail. (Thanks again to people in the 'burbs and in rural PA) The DA doesn't want to look like she's twiddling her thumbs, so she gets the Attorney General on board and writes this public service announcement. The DA comes off as proactive and the AG recognizes the city's problems without betraying the rest of the state.


Win-win.
 
Henry Bowman might know whether a defendant has ever claimed that he shot his gun to make sure it would never commit a crime.

If guns commit crimes, shoot them.
 
While I think it's good that the politicians are at least "appearing" to focus on straw purchasers rather than focusing on the general gun owning public, that road is full of IED's and caution is urged.

1. what method for stopping staw purchases has been heralded publicly for the last 10 years or so by the anti gun/gun control crowd? "We must close the gun show loophole.

2. what other method has been heralded, publicly, as a necessary method to stop straw purchases? Registration and licensing.

Let's not be too quick to assume that the politicians have finally seen the light and are now on our side, 100%.
 
I agree it's important not to be duped here.

Remember that the AG and DA aren't in the business of preventing crime, or passing gun control laws, either. They're prosecutors. That's in line with what they said: if you do X, we will prosecute you and do something about it.

But the anti-gun slant comes out here. Did they say "If you commit a crime you will go to jail" or "if you kill a child you will go to jail"?

NO. They qualified it. They didn't say anything about the guy who is pulling the trigger - they're after YOU for making a straw purchase.

So the vicious cycle continues. Until they go after the right guy, nothing will happen.
 
I am surprised at the negative remarks regarding AG Tom Corbett. As far as I know he is one of the good guys. His office has expanded the number of states with which we (Pennsylvanians) have reciprocity. His predecessors were rather inactive in that area.
Some months ago there was concern that third party non-resident licenses were being treated as invalid (by the PA State Police, I believe). AG Corbett, or his office, has stated that reciprocity is with the state of issuance, not with the holder's state of residence.

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184

Mr. Corbett is from the western part of the state, not from Philadelphia. I am sure I recall that in his campaign for AG he made definite positive comments, or answers to questions, concerning our RKBA.
 
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But the anti-gun slant comes out here. Did they say "If you commit a crime you will go to jail" or "if you kill a child you will go to jail"?

NO. They qualified it. They didn't say anything about the guy who is pulling the trigger - they're after YOU for making a straw purchase.

So the vicious cycle continues. Until they go after the right guy, nothing will happen.
Click to expand...

Actually, Beatnik...you're wrong on this one...
A Straw Purchaser (one who buys a firearm for someone who is not eligible to own or possess a firearm) is commiting a crime and is the primary source of the guns used in crimes in Philly.
The thugs are recruiting (among others) crack addicts with no record to buy the guns "legally" (by lying on the 4473 form) for the thugs usage.

One of the points I made to those Philly reps was to go after the straw purchasers and don't allow them to plead to a lesser crime. And, that's what they're trying to do.

They are going after the source of the guns used in crime in Philly...and that's exactly what they should be doing because those straw purchasers are "the right guy".

Maybe you didn't read all the posts in this thread, or read them as thoroughly as you could have.

Tom Corbett is one of the pro-rights guys. Nothing I've read about him suggests otherwise...nothing! He did clarify the non-resident LTCF issue which was being mis-interpreted by the PSP.
 
1. what method for stopping staw purchases has been heralded publicly for the last 10 years or so by the anti gun/gun control crowd? "We must close the gun show loophole.

2. what other method has been heralded, publicly, as a necessary method to stop straw purchases? Registration and licensing.
Click to expand...

Lets not forget the ever popular one gun a month purchase limit. Currently being batted around Harrisburg as one of the "solutions" to the "gun problem". :rolleyes:
 
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