Virginia carry question

[chris in va]

I've been wracking my brain trying to find an answer to this, but can't find a definite one either in the Virginia code, Packing.org or Virginia Gun Owner's Guide.

I understand a true federal building is off limits to CCW, courthouses in particular. But yesterday I went to get my county tags done on my truck, and the front door didn't have any 'no' signs on it. Left my CZ in the vehicle anyway just in case.

Are those county buildings also considered federal? What about say...the Social Security building or other government facilities like DMV.

And that new relaxed law for CCW on school property (pick up/drop off children, gun stays in the car). Say I went to a football game open to the public...?

So confusing.

 

[Navy joe]

Social Security Admin bldg=Fed. Everything else you mention is state or local. Considering you can carry into the Statehouse in Richmond they'll have a hard time legally stopping you.

 

[Bubbles]

Federal buildings are a no-no.

State - it depends. Capitol is ok, except the rotunda (unless you're a Delegate or Senator). I think the courthouses and prisons are a no-no.

Local - courthouses and jails are a no-no. Other facilities like the government centers, libraries, rec centers, parks, etc. are ok.

Schools - parking lots only. The buildings and facilities (like the stadium) are still off-limits.

 

[dev_null]

Chris: Get in touch with VCDL for more info. Better yet, sign up as a member if you haven't already, and get their newsletter and email alerts.

- 0 -

 

[Cacique500]

Second the motion to contact VCDL...they can be reached at http://www.vcdl.org

If you live in VA and like firearms joining them is a must...they do phenominal things in this state to protect your RKBA. A one year membership is $15 and they keep us *very* well informed as to what's going on in the state in regards to firearms.

 

[Well Regulated]

Federal v State

Are those county buildings also considered federal? What about say...the Social Security building or other government facilities like DMV.

And that new relaxed law for CCW on school property (pick up/drop off children, gun stays in the car). Say I went to a football game open to the public...?

So confusing.

The Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles is a state agency. Carry is currently only prohibited where the General Assembly says it is prohibited by law.

The new school law carves out a small exemption to permit holders. 18.2-308.1 (B) (vii) "a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school." The wording has four commands for the exemption to apply. 1) A vallid concealed handgun permit . 2) A concealed handgun. 3) While in a motor vehicle. 4) in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of ingress or egress.

If you want to go to a high school football game you would have to keep the concealed handgun concealed in the vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of ingress or egress.

Look on


Virginia1774.org


It's free and is the premier legal information site on the law on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms in Virginia.

 

[hightech]

The Law

Agreed Virginia 1774 is the place to go for information on the law in Virginia. There is nothing better.

 

[epijunkie67]

Does federal building include the post office? I'm assuming it does but wondered about the counter area where you go to buy stamps and mail packages. Still a no-no there also?

 

[Well Regulated]

Under current case law it appears that it is illegal to carry in a Post office/Postal Facility.

 

[carebear]

I have to dispute that.

Carry in post offices is prohibited except for "hunting and other lawful purposes". (The exception in subsection "d, 3" the standard prohibited poster mentions but doesn't include).

There is no extant case law I am aware of on what constitutes "lawful purposes". After all, you can carry the thing in there to mail it or parts of it. Since the weapon I carry was produced lawfully, distributed lawfully, sold lawfully, purchased lawfully and is carried lawfully for a lawful purpose (self-defense) under my state law, my argument, should I get to be the test case, would be that, since there is nothing unlawful surrounding my carry, it is lawful for me to carry my weapon in the publicly accessible portion of the post office.

Check out one lawyer's opinion on the issue in this article by Robert Fiorillo for "The Gun Zone". (turn down your speakers)

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-usps.html

 

[Well Regulated]

The Case Law

I have read two different lawyers analysis on this. The first problem is that the postal Service is exempted from Title 18 code: Title 39, Section 410.

Application of other laws

(a) Except as provided by subsection (b) of this section, and
except as otherwise provided in this title or insofar as such laws
remain in force as rules or regulations of the Postal Service, no
Federal law dealing with public or Federal contracts, property,
works, officers, employees, budgets, or funds, including the
provisions of chapters 5 and 7 of title 5, shall apply to the
exercise of the powers of the Postal Service.

The Post Office is protected by this exemption.


Post Office Exempted Code


Secondly, there are two cases at the appelate level which concern firearms in federal buildings under Tittle 18, both of the defendants lost.

Federal Rsetrictions and Case law

 

[carebear]

Lofton doesn't seem to be on point, as I wouldn't be arguing that it "isn't posted I can't carry" but rather that "lawful purposes" isn't defined and absent a definition or ruling that "carrying for self-defense" is explicitly NOT lawful I have no reason to consider it so. Presumption of innocence and such.

And, I'm a just a sometime legal student and hobbyist so I'm probably missing something, but I'm not getting the point on the post office's exemption as I'm not relying on any federal law for justification other than their own statement on "lawful purposes". They are bound by their own regs under the US Code.

I would expect to lose "just because" but I don't think they could make the ruling track soundly, I can't picture any justification that isn't either by fiat or by some tortuous reading of "penumbrae" and such.

 

[Well Regulated]

Two Different Code Sections

You stated or "other lawful purposes" . This is the wording from Title 18, Sec , 44: Title 18, 44, Sec 930


However, the Title which governs Postal Service Property according to Title 39 and is exempt from Title 18, Sec 44 Sec 310 is Postal Service regulation
(l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may
carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either
openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for
official purposes.

I'll admit this is very confusing when one Title Trumps another and those who argued the appelate legal challenges under Title 18 didn't do a very good job of it.

 

[carebear]

Thanks for the additional detail. That seems pretty clear cut.