Virginia: No more trust-owned machine guns

[AlexanderA]

Virginia has state-level registratioon of machine guns (although not other NFA weapons). On November 27 of last year, the state Attorney General, Ken Cuccinelli, issued an opinion to the State Police saying that it was not legal for trusts to register machine guns with the state. (This was just days after he lost the election for the governorship.)

http://www.oag.state.va.us/Opinions and Legal Resources/Opinions/2013opns/13-083 Flaherty.pdf

Since state registration is a legal condition for ownership (Virginia is one of the Uniform Machine Gun Act states), the ATF will not approve transfers of MGs to trusts within the state. (The use of trusts was a workaround for those local jurisdictions in Virginia in which the Chief Law Enforcement Officers would not sign, as a matter of policy, the required ATF transfer applications.)

It's unclear whether or how this ruling will have retroactive effect for machine guns already registered to trusts in the state.

 

[Blackhawk30]

Cuccinelli isn't known for being anti gun.I'm glad I didn't go the trust route.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Cuccinelli isn't known for being anti gun.I'm glad I didn't go the trust route.

No he isn't, so it is probably a dispassionate interpretation of state law.
Fix is probably legislative.

Mike

 

[AlexanderA]

There was talk on another gun forum that the state requirement might be satisfied by having the person in actual possession register the gun (that is, that the gun would be owned by the trust, but the possessing trustee would be the one registering it with the state in his individual capacity). This is because the state law mentions that "persons in possession," and not "owners," are the ones required to register.

However, until this is clarified (and it's still an untried legal theory at this point), the ATF will not approve transfers of MGs to trusts in Virginia. Thus we have a "Catch 22" situation.

I've always felt that individual ownership was the more straightforward route, provided you could get your local CLEO to sign. (There is a bill pending in the Virginia legislature to require CLEOs to sign unless they can come up with concrete reasons not to.)

 

[Bubbles]

Note that LLC's and corps are still good to go, just not trusts.

I have no idea how this affects machine guns currently owned by trusts in VA.

 

[AlexanderA]

To expand on the theme of LLC/corporate ownership, I believe that it's the "Achilles Heel" of NFA regulation. That is, once a gun is in LLC/corporate ownership (and especially if a separate corporation is set up to own each gun), the underlying interests in the corporation can change hands freely, with no "transfer" of the gun itself ever taking place. Ergo, no taxable event and no ATF transfer approval. Even under the latest ATF proposed regulations, a change of "responsible persons" would trigger a new document submission (photos, fingerprints, CLEO signature), but no tax and no months-long approval process.

Surely the ATF must be aware of this and it must scare the dickens out of them.

 

[Blackhawk30]

There is a bill in the current legislative session that would force CLEOS to sign in Virginia.Lets hope it passes and Tmac signs it.

 

[GBExpat]

There is a bill in the current legislative session that would force CLEOS to sign in Virginia.Lets hope it passes and Tmac signs it.

Hahahaha ... yeah, like that would ever happen.