Virginia Removes SC From List of States It Honors.

[Gary Slider]

The Virginia State Police have done it again. They have removed SC from the list of states they said they would honor. I have an email into them but am not hopeful for a quick reply. SC was listed as a state VA would honor without SC honoring theirs.

Kentucky is now listing SC as a state they have reciprocity with. This is a new listing but South Carolina has not posted a new list as of this evening. KY honors all other state permits. They just added they have an agreement signed.

I have heard through the grapevine that VA was one state that SC would be adding to their new List. I am hoping they removed SC from the list of states they would honor and made an error in not adding it to the list of states they have agreements with. Time will tell but I just wanted to warn all those residents of SC that VA is not listing your state as one they will honor at this time. Lets hope it changes very quickly. I don't like this moving backwards.

 

[SomeKid]

Did it with Tennessee recently. Whats with those cops?

 

[fairfax1]

From VCDL:

http://blog.vcdl.org/



*****************************************************
3. Reciprocity update. This makes my rear end tired. We have GOT to fix this. :-(
******************************************************

**** SOUTH CAROLINA RESIDENTS - BE SURE TO READ THIS ENTIRE SECTION! ****

Tom Lambert, with the Virginia State Police, just sent me an update on Virginia's reciprocity status with several other states. I want to thank Tom for his professionalism and his diligent work to setup reciprocity with as many states as possible. The rant that follows has nothing to do with Tom - I want to make that perfectly clear.

As I looked at Tom's latest update, one glaring problem jumps out at me: the Virginia State Police's demand that all reciprocal states have a system in place to verify the validity of their permits 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, is crushing a lot of reciprocal agreements!

The net effect is that YOU are left defenseless in many states as you travel solely because if this unnecessary requirement by YOUR state police. And many guests to this state are similarly and unnecessarily disarmed.

That is unacceptable and we need to do whatever we can to get that 24/7 requirement struck out of Virginia law.

Let me show you just how inane and how serious a problem this is.

***Virginia has JUST stopped recognizing South Carolina concealed handgun permits. ***

Why?

Because apparently South Carolina does not have the 24/7 validation capability. For years now Virginia thought they did and has been recognizing their permits! Virginia just now discovered the problem while reviewing information with South Carolina!

So for years not one single Virginia police officer has needed to verify a South Carolina CHP. If they had, this problem would have surfaced a long time ago.

That confirms what VCDL has been saying all along: WHILE THE STATE POLICE DEMAND 24/7 VALIDATION, VCDL DOES NOT BELIEVE THAT THEY EVER OR **EXTREMELY RARELY** USE IT!!

Here is what the State Police's 24/7 validation demand has caused gun owners across the country:

1. After many, many years, South Carolina has just offered Virginia reciprocity, BUT because we have just stopped recognizing South Carolina over the 24/7 issue, the deal is DEAD! :-(
2. Virginia will not recognize Idaho, even though they have honored our permits for years, because Idaho does not have 24/7 validation.
3. Virginia will not recognize Indiana, even though they have honored our permits for years, because Indiana does not have 24/7 validation.
4. Virginia will not setup reciprocity with Maine because Maine doesn't have 24/7 validation.
5. Virginia will not setup reciprocity with Alabama because Alabama doesn't have 24/7 validation.
6. Virginia will not setup reciprocity with New Hampshire because New Hampshire doesn't have 24/7 validation.
7. In a "what's good for the goose is good for the gander", Nevada has turned Virginia down because our damned 24/7 validation isn't automated!

The State Police and the General Assembly need to understand this is not a game. Lives are at stake and we need to get rid of the road blocks that are fragmenting the 2nd Amendment and our right to defend ourselves and our families.

This whole issue has just been bumped up in VCDL's legislative agenda for next year.

We finally get offered reciprocity by South Carolina and the Virginia State Police force us to fumble the ball. I'm livid!

If you are from South Carolina, you are going to have to use either a Florida, Utah, or a Virginia non-resident permit to carry concealed here, I'm embarrassed to say.

 

[TStorm]

Thanks. What constitues a 24/7 validation?

 

[SCKimberFan]

That sucks because FL is $100+, whereas NH was only $20.

Thanks VA.

 

[Creature]

Why is it that you think the 24/7 validation requirement is so unreasonable?

 

[SCKimberFan]

One more stinkin infringement. Thats why.

 

[ASM826]

Any permitting system is a defacto registration. The government now has you on record as a gun owner. Any rules requiring compliance are infringement, and prior restraint. The 1934 laws infringed on full-auto, and you can see where that led.

Any fee or tax levied on firearms is an infringement. You can't charge sales tax on a newspaper because of the 1st, why can you tax the 2nd?

It isn't a question of reasonable. Politicians in Washington DC thought their rules were reasonable. The important fact is they were unconstitutional. Washington, DC's new rules are too.

If you want permits, firearm limits, magazine size limits, whatever, then write a new amendment to the constitution and get it passed. This is not a question for the Courts, it is a question for Congress and then the States to consider.

 

[Patrick Henry]

ASM826 is correct, and quite apart from that, the US constitution obliges every state in this in this union to give full faith and credit to the "public acts" of other states. (Article 4, section 1) Because of that passage, every state is required to recognize my VA driver's license, birth certificate, etc....but when it comes to CC permits, states apparently believe they can behave as though they are not part of the United States. Rubbish.

 

[SCKimberFan]

You can't charge sales tax on a newspaper because of the 1st, why can you tax the 2nd?

I pay sales tax on newspapers when I buy one in NC.

 

[ASM826]

I'm in NC, it depends where you buy the paper

NC Tax Code Appendix A

76 * Sales of newspapers by newspaper street vendors, by newspaper carriers making door-to-door deliveries, and by means of vending machines are exempt. Sales of newspapers by others are subject to the state general rate and applicable local rate.

____________________________________________________

I'd be happy to buy my tax free firearms from a door to door saleman.

 

[TStorm]

Why is it that you think the 24/7 validation requirement is so unreasonable?

The newspaper tangent aside, what is VA's definition or concept of a 24/7 validation requirement? Is this for law enforcement or does it encompass others? It is simply a matter of a LEO punching in the number and getting a valid/nonvalid response?

 

[SCKimberFan]

It appears as though VCDL has it's work cut out for them. You can rest assured that if they (VA) won't reciprocate, neither will the other.

 

[sailortoo]

This same 24/7 validation rears it's ugly head in Nevada - Without the validation, New Mexico (and others, as mentioned) cannot have either reciprocity, or recognition. The whole system among the 50 states is a can of worms, unnecessarily, in my opinion, as the "Full Faith and Credit" clause should nullify all the bickering between states. Obviousy, it doesn't, as each state wants all weapons laws to meet their specific ideals (all different in some way). I wish I could say that I have a clear and ready answer, but it just seems out of reach at present.
sailortoo

 

[MAKster]

"Full Faith and Credit" doesn't extend as far as people like to think. For example, some states do not acknowledge marriages between certain people that are legal in other states. In the past many states didn't recognize interracial marriages and most do not recognize same sex marriages today. State business and professional licenses are usually only valid in that state. You have to be seperately licensed as a lawyer or doctor in each state you practice. Drivers licenses are recognized by all states because of "interstate commerce."

 

[ASM826]

Yes, apart for the 1st Amendment issue,

It is still worthwhile to consider my comment. If any state want to legally infringe on the 2nd Amendment, and most of them do, they should have their Senators propose an amendment to the Constitution, not pass unconstitutional laws. Most of the mess of our rights as citizens flows from overreaching on the part of governmental authorities at all levels.

Even the recent Heller decision has not impacted like it should. I have an individual right to keep and bear arms. Not subject to regulation, not different in every state. If they want 24/7 verification, they could put the Bill of Rights on the dashboard of every patrol car and any time an officer wondered if I had the right to have a weapon, he could refer to #2.

 

[Jeff White]

It is still worthwhile to consider my comment. If any state want to legally infringe on the 2nd Amendment, and most of them do, they should have their Senators propose an amendment to the Constitution, not pass unconstitutional laws.

The US Supreme Court is the final arbiter of what is constitutional and what isn't. See Marbury v. Madison. Until that's overturned or congress passes a law changing it, that's the way things are. And anyone who thinks otherwise is not in touch with the reality we live in.

Even the recent Heller decision has not impacted like it should. I have an individual right to keep and bear arms. Not subject to regulation,

I think you need to actually read Heller. Not subject to regulation is not what Scalia said. I wish it had said that, but it didn't. Again, all the wishing in the world isn't going to change how things are.

Jeff

 

[Frandy]

That sucks because FL is $100+, whereas NH was only $20.

Well, you would understand if you knew more about NH government... I'm not making judgements one way or the other. Those who live there or understand "NH" will get this. It's bigger than gun reciprocity or anything else about firearms.

 

[ASM826]

The US Supreme Court is the final arbiter of what is constitutional and what isn't. See Marbury v. Madison. Until that's overturned or congress passes a law changing it, that's the way things are. And anyone who thinks otherwise is not in touch with the reality we live in.

I think you need to actually read Heller. Not subject to regulation is not what Scalia said.

I read the Constitution.

The 2nd Amendment doesn't say "the right of the people to keep and bear arms can be limited by government". It just doesn't.

 

[Technosavant]

What constitues a 24/7 validation?

Missouri has this kind of capability by having MO CCW permits entered into the MULES (Missouri Uniform Law Enforcement System), essentially the computer database any officer can access using the computer in the cruiser. Outstanding warrants, driver's license information, etc. That kind of thing. It is tied in to the systems of other states, giving us 24/7 validation anywhere in the US.

That's one of the reasons the MO permit is one of the most accepted permits in the US.

 

[Waitone]

Perfect example of why incorporation will be the next SCOTUS battle.

 

[JohnBT]

"The 2nd Amendment doesn't say "the right of the people to keep and bear arms can be limited by government". It just doesn't."

I didn't know that. Anybody else?

 

[ASM826]

"The 2nd Amendment doesn't say "the right of the people to keep and bear arms can be limited by government". It just doesn't."

I didn't know that. Anybody else?

Most of our elected officials and lots of government agencies don't seem to know it. Every enforcement of a firearms law in the United States is a violation of the 2nd Amendment, almost always by people who have taken an oath to defend that Constitution.

My point is not that every regulation of firearms is bad, just that every regulation is unconstitutional. When the country decided slavery was wrong, it was not a court ruling or a law. It was a Constitutional Amendment that went through the Constitutional process of being voted on and then ratified by the States. Same for women's right to vote. No matter how good an idea is, if it violates the Constitution as written, an Amendment must be passed, or any laws made are void.

I was replying to the comments concerning Justice Scalia's ruling. The Constitution is not what any man or any one court decision says. It is the words themselves. The words of the 2nd Amendment are as clear as any in the document. What part of "shall not be infringed" allows all the regulations the federal government, states and towns have thrown up over the years?

 

[SCKimberFan]

Well, you would understand if you knew more about NH government... I'm not making judgements one way or the other. Those who live there or understand "NH" will get this. It's bigger than gun reciprocity or anything else about firearms.

OK Frandy, care to fill in those who aren't from NH and have no idea what you are talking about, instead of talking in code?

 

[JohnBT]

"Every enforcement of a firearms law in the United States is a violation of the 2nd Amendment"

I would say you are in the minority on that compared to, say, Supreme Court justices. John

www.loc.gov/law/help/second-amendment.html

"In cases in the 19th Century, the Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment does not bar state regulation of firearms. For example, in United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542, 553 (1875), the Court stated that the Second Amendment “has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government,” and in Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252, 265 (1886), the Court reiterated that the Second Amendment “is a limitation only upon the power of Congress and the National government, and not upon that of the States.” Although most of the rights in the Bill of Rights have been selectively incorporated into the rights guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment and thus cannot be impaired by state governments, the Second Amendment has never been so incorporated."