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W on the 2A (original title: Bush's talk on terrorism draws cheers)

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Kharn, Aug 2, 2004.

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  1. Kharn

    Kharn Member

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    Hmmmmmm. :cool:

    Kharn
     
  2. Gordon Fink

    Gordon Fink Member

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    Other than lip service, what does this mean?

    ~G. Fink
     
  3. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    Nada.

    Platitudes here...get yer platitudes...:scrutiny:

    Dig the "Flush the Johns" sign, though.

    Sawdust
     
  4. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    Why does he want to renew the AWB?
     
  5. flatrock

    flatrock Member

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    I think he honestly believes that we have the individual right to keep and bear arms.

    However what arms he thinks are reasonable for citizens to keep and bear, along with what actions by the government result in infringing upon that right are doesn't quite meet my definition.

    Basically, he's a far better choice than Kerry, but hardly as pro-gun as many as us would like.

    With him in office, there's a good chance at not having any new federal laws restricting our rights. Even restrictions he supports, he doesn't support strongly enough to beat up congress about them, such as the AWB.

    Is he likely to push for laws that remove restrictions, or do so throughthe exectuive branch's powers? Well, his administration already has done some things.

    They stopped abuses of NICS data by the FBI. THey changed the AG office's policy on how the 2nd ammendment is interpreted to be support for an individual right.

    What's the most important thing he could likely do as president? He may get to appoint one or more Supreme Court Justices. GIven the choice of Bush or Kerry appointing those, I think it's a clear choice.
     
  6. Dead

    Dead Member

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    Lets see I want at least 3 things to happen..

    1 . Federal Law striking down ALL state laws that are MORE restrictive than the federal laws.

    2. Federal National Carry (Vermont Style of course)

    3. No more NFA.

    That would be good start.
     
  7. Stebalo

    Stebalo Member

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    Personally, I think this is huge. With the activist courts we have these days, we need an executive branch that is our advocate and fighting in the courts for our rights, not against them.
     
  8. AZRickD

    AZRickD Member

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    Information disconnect:

    "The RKBA is an individual right."

    "I support the renewal of the 'Assault Weapons Ban.'"

    Which is it?

    A right, subject to nearly unlimited restrictions (all those current laws on the books we know to be unconstitutional and counter to the views of the Framers) is no right at all.

    Rick
     
  9. Monkeyleg

    Monkeyleg Member

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    Rick, you've been around THR and TFL more than long enough for me to come to admire your opinions and views.

    Bush's "support" for a renewal was pure political subterfuge. He knew it wouldn't happen. Would I like for him to say that he opposed the ban? Sure. But it made sense to tell the bed-wetters that he supported a ban that would never be renewed.
     
  10. AZRickD

    AZRickD Member

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    Well, heck, Monkeyleg.

    I agree, and I know well of the tactics, but that would have taken me more time to write and my daughter was tugging on me to go to the water park.

    I had to make a choice, albeit, a difficult one.

    I'm not proud of my decision (I should have put her in a time-out/severe beating), but... I was weak.

    Yes, truth be known, (and I have said this before on the net) my hunch is that Dubya is well aware of our position. Just ask Melissa? (the chick from Virginia with the AWC-suppressed Model 7) whose friend interviewed Dubya back in 2000. Dubya was asked if he would sign the revewal of the 1994 Crime Bill. Dubya's response was something like, "That would cost me the election, wouldn't it?"

    And I can well-imagine that the road block to the legislation was orchestrated by Leadership in both houses of the Congress.

    Yes, I'd rather that he come out and take a stand for us, but he doesn't want to risk invigorating the Demo base. Now we know who the pro-abortion Demo activists feel when Kerry says abortion is bad but he supports a "woman's right to choose (something-not-otherwise-named).

    One last thing, Monkeyleg. Beware of praising me too much. I would hate that guilt-by-association drag your good name down with mine. :cool:

    Rick "Bull in a china shop" D
     
  11. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    Ashroft made the statement that he thought the 2nd amendment was an individual right in a congressional hearing, not a courtroom.

    To my knowledge, the present administration has not fought any court battles for our rights.

    If you know of any examples, I would love to hear them.
     
  12. Warbow

    Warbow Member

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    Lone_Gunman wrote:

    He doesn't.

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85829

    Too many people expect him to be perfect. He's not. Could he do more for RKBA? Yes. But he's 110% better than Kerry. This is reality, take what you can get.
     
  13. Thumper

    Thumper Member

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  14. JPL

    JPL Member

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    If there's one thing that I've learned in my 50 odd years on this planet (and I've learned it the HARD way), it's that if it's coming out of a politican's mouth, it's generally a lie.

    But if it's coming out of a Republican politician's mouth, you generally aren't going to be screwed nearly as badly by the end result of the lie as you generally are if it's coming out of a Democrat's mouth.

    When I realized that, my political affiliations began to shift dramatically.
     
  15. JPL

    JPL Member

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    If there's one thing that I've learned in my 50 odd years on this planet (and I've learned it the HARD way), it's that if it's coming out of a politican's mouth, it's generally a lie.

    But if it's coming out of a Republican politician's mouth, you generally aren't going to be screwed nearly as badly by the end result of the lie as you generally are if it's coming out of a Democrat's mouth.

    When I realized that, my political affiliations began to shift dramatically.
     
  16. JPL

    JPL Member

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  17. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    Thumper, I scanned through that thread, but am not sure I see where the Bush Administration was fighting any court battles. It all looked like legislative actions.

    What court battles specifically are they fighting that you are amazed that I don't know about?
     
  18. Thumper

    Thumper Member

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    Not a court battle...much more important than that. Surely you agree that the Dem attempted amendments to the Lawsuit Immunity Bill were the last best chance of the AWB.

    Do you argue that this wasn't a serious attempt by the Bush administration to kill any hopes of an AWB extension?

    Remember, this memo was released after cloture and the only amendments to the bill up for discussion were the AWB extension and the closure of the "gun show loophole."
     
  19. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    The Second Amendment doesn't give anybody any rights. Never did. Never will.

    The Second Amendment merely protects our inherent human rights—in theory, anyway.
     
  20. Monkeyleg

    Monkeyleg Member

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    Rick: "One last thing, Monkeyleg. Beware of praising me too much. I would hate that guilt-by-association drag your good name down with mine."

    Well, triple :D :D :D back to you!
     
  21. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    Thumper, I don't think we are on the same page.

    The reference you cite is all well and good, but my question was in reference to court battles that another poster said the Bush Administration had been fighting on our behalf. I am not aware of any court battles, and that was what I was asking about.

    The stuff you cite is all legislative, and while good, is not relevant to my question about the court battles.

    You kind of spanked me a couple of posts back by saying :

    Then nothing cited in the thread you posted had anything to do with court battles.

    Bush trying to block the AWB does not have anything to with fighting in court, which is the comment I was responding to.
     
  22. Thumper

    Thumper Member

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    I agree, the support didn't happen in a court room. Sorry for the misunderstanding. He DID go out on a limb to block it, though. Many here ignore that.

    Just trying to point out that Bush's support for us in tangible and on the edge of what is politically permissible.

    That phrase "individual right" didn't just sneak into that speech, either.
     
  23. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    Its tangible, but just barely tangible.

    One thing that worries me about him is that he signed the Campaign Finance Reform, despite having concerns that it was probably unconstitutional.

    If he will take that kind of liberty with the 1st, why wouldn't he do it with the 2nd, if he found himself in a situation where it was politically expediant to do so?

    He is a heck of a lot better than Kerry, but he is a long long way from ideal.
     
  24. Thumper

    Thumper Member

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    Hey, I wish he would've vetoed it too, but evidently he believes in the concept of Separation of Powers.

    His last comment, as he was signing, was "I expect that the courts will resolve these legitimate legal questions as appropriate under the law."
     
  25. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    Yes, he passed the buck on to the Supreme Court, and now we have a bad law.

    If a president believes in his heart that a bill he is about to sign into effect is or might be unconstitutional, then he shouldn't sign it. Its his duty to veto it.

    I don't know if he believes in seperation of powers or not. He mainly just goes along with what everyone wants.
     
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